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Old 10-06-2011, 04:47 PM   #1
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From: La Center, WA
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Your two cents about daily carry?

I'm just looking for your guys' two cents on daily carry, concealed or otherwise. I mentioned before that I'm about as liberal as they come - with the exception of gun laws, gun control, etc.

I'm ambivalent when it comes to this topic. I do have my concealed carry license, but I have yet to carry in public. On one hand it seems impractical, on the other hand it seems necessary. I found this somewhere on the internet, just thought I'd share.

Quote:
I donít carry a gun to scare people, I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place

I donít carry a gun because Iím paranoid, I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.

I donít carry a gun because Iím evil. I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world.

I donít carry a gun because I hate the government. I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.

I donít carry a gun because Iím angry. I carry a gun so that I donít have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.

I donít carry a gun because I want to shoot someone. I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

I donít carry a gun because I am a cowboy. I carry a gun because, when I die and go to heaven, I want to be a cowboy.

I donít carry a gun to make me feel like a man. I carry a gun because men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.

I donít carry a gun because I feel inadequate. I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.

I donít carry a gun because I love it. I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.

Police protection is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect themselves.
Police do not protect you from crime, they usually just investigate the crime after it happens and then callsomeone in to clean up the mess.
Also, when you carry publicly, do you carry with a magazine in, and one in the chamber? Or just a magazine in and not one in the chamber? I'm asking because I'm not sure I trust the safety on my Taurus
 
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Old 10-06-2011, 05:04 PM   #2
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if I have my pistol on me, it's loaded.

there's nothing an empty gun can do for you.


I'd never carry (for protection) a gun I didn't trust with my life.
 
Old 10-06-2011, 05:13 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deloscielos View Post
Also, when you carry publicly, do you carry with a magazine in, and one in the chamber? Or just a magazine in and not one in the chamber? I'm asking because I'm not sure I trust the safety on my Taurus
Why do you need a manual safety on a personal protection weapon? You want to pull the trigger & have it fire when you are in a life or death situation, not be fumbling with a safety.

Same thing goes for carrying with one in the chamber. When your life is at risk, do you really want to have to rack a round?

The majority of the time when I carry, I carry an XDm "no manual safety" with one in the pipe. If I ever have to draw on someone, I want to be the one that goes home when all is said & done.
 
Old 10-06-2011, 06:31 PM   #4
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my favorite, airweight 38, takes +P ammo, hammerless (DA only) and easy to carry iwb, or even in pocket, with an in pocket holster.

(always have a round in each chamber, the safety is the person carrying it)
 
Old 10-06-2011, 06:49 PM   #5
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I ALWAYS carry when I'm outside my house (where its legal of course). A lot of times I'm carrying inside my house too.

I have been carrying concealed every day for 22 years. I ALWAYS carry fully loaded with one in the chamber.

I used to carry a Beretta 92F Compact. I would carry it with one in the chamber and the safety OFF. I want my gun to fire by just pulling the trigger, I don't want to mess with safeties or racking it to chamber a round when I need it to save my life. I now carry a XD9 that I also use in IDPA and USPSA competitions. I also carry 2 extra magazines on me. Just because you never know...
 
Old 10-06-2011, 10:40 PM   #6
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Well I suppose it's obvious I'm new to all this!

When I purchased my Taurus, I had not intended to use it as a daily carry weapon, but now that I have my concealed carry license and it's all I have at the moment, I guess it'll have to do.

I never even thought about not having a manual safety on a daily carry weapon. DUH.
 
Old 10-07-2011, 06:53 AM   #7
Marksman
 
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From: NW Quadrant WA State
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The main safety device on your pistol is your finger. Keep it off the trigger until you want to shoot and your firearm is as safe as can be.

An unloaded firearm is merely a club. If that's all you want to carry, get a baseball bat. They're cheaper.

Lastly, a firearm safely stored at home can't help you when you are out in public, where you are more likely to be assaulted, robbed, mugged, or whatever. If self protection was your goal when you purchased your pistol than it needs to be carried on your self.
 
Old 10-07-2011, 08:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatFugg View Post
Why do you need a manual safety on a personal protection weapon? You want to pull the trigger & have it fire when you are in a life or death situation, not be fumbling with a safety.
So a 1911 isn't a good personal protection weapon?? It has a manual safety and you'd be nuts to carry it with one in the pipe and the safety off. It's all about learning your weapon's manual of arms and practicing til the muscle memory is there and swiping that safety off is automatic, you don't even think about it. This does require more practice/training for the shooter though.
Quote:
Same thing goes for carrying with one in the chamber. When your life is at risk, do you really want to have to rack a round?
Personally I agree with this, but for example the Israelis train to NOT keep one in the pipe and draw and rack the slide every time. The logic behind it is that method ALWAYS works regardless of the action type of the pistol. With practice, this can be pretty much as fast as a straight draw. But there is the obvious caveat that if your weak hand is immobilized or otherwise doing something else, you're going to have to rack the slide off your body or something else, which is a lot tougher.

Quote:
The majority of the time when I carry, I carry an XDm "no manual safety" with one in the pipe. If I ever have to draw on someone, I want to be the one that goes home when all is said & done.
I also prefer striker-fired pistols for defense, and have several XDs and an XDm. My first was my old Gen2 Glock 19, which I still have but is now retired. I like the fact that they are simple, no muss no fuss to get into action, and always go bang.


But back to the OP, that is really a personal decision. There are many that say if you're going to carry, you should *always* carry. And I do understand and agree with the logic behind that. However, you have to balance that with your lifestyle etc. For example, I work in IT, and often onsite at my clients, sometimes crawling under desks etc. I would have a very hard time keeping a concealed gun concealed. So I weigh the chances of me needing a gun (low, but as they say, you never know) vs the chances of me being 'made' for carrying (pretty high) and that I'd probably lose my job if I client saw my gun and freaked out about it. I also live in a decent neighborhood that doesn't have a lot of crime. If I lived somewhere else, I might think very different and carry all the time.

So I chose not to carry 24/7. There is always a loaded gun in my nightstand. Anytime I'm traveling, camping, or just out in the woods or out and about I carry. I also carry a small pocket knife all the time. It's more of a tool than a weapon, but if it came down to it, it beats bare hands.
 
Old 10-07-2011, 11:26 AM   #9
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From: NW Quadrant WA State
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GixxerPete View Post


Personally I agree with this, but for example the Israelis train to NOT keep one in the pipe and draw and rack the slide every time. The logic behind it is that method ALWAYS works regardless of the action type of the pistol. With practice, this can be pretty much as fast as a straight draw. But there is the obvious caveat that if your weak hand is immobilized or otherwise doing something else, you're going to have to rack the slide off your body or something else, which is a lot tougher.


The "Israeli Slingshot" method of carry was dictated by the varied pieces of crap they purchased over the years out of necessity. It at least overcame the issue of the marginal safety these weapons possessed.

Quote:
In the United States and Canada, the term Israeli method is generally believed to refer to the carrying of a semi-automatic pistol with its chamber empty. However, the carrying of the chamber empty served a safety consideration, rather than a tactical consideration. In past decades, due to severe budget constraints, the IDF purchased and issued large quantities of antiquated side arms, the mechanical safety of which was questionable. In recent decades, as budget concerns are increasingly alleviated and more modern, standardized side arms are issued, this mode of carry is increasingly being phased out. It should also be noted that specialized personnel, such as police and special forces units, have typically carried newer and safer firearms, and have rarely used this mode of carry.

This method is no longer required with the IMI built pistols as well as the Glock , Sig, and Browning HP variants they now issue.
 
Old 10-07-2011, 02:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadshot2 View Post
The "Israeli Slingshot" method of carry was dictated by the varied pieces of crap they purchased over the years out of necessity. It at least overcame the issue of the marginal safety these weapons possessed.

This method is no longer required with the IMI built pistols as well as the Glock , Sig, and Browning HP variants they now issue.
Interesting. I never heard ths 'shoddy equipment' part, but that makes total sense. I trust a quality 1911 safety, but some crappy no-name knockoff? Prolly not so much.

It's also interesting to note that the entire time (pretty sure it was the entire time?) the 1911 was issued to our troops, they were trained to carry hammer down on an empty chamber & rack the slide to get the pistol into action. I think this was widely ignored, (I know I would have!) but apparently they didn't think troops could handle cocked & locked carry, or some shit like that. The switch to the M9 was the first time troops could carry a fully loaded sidearm.
 
Old 10-07-2011, 05:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GixxerPete View Post
I think this was widely ignored, (I know I would have!) but apparently they didn't think troops could handle cocked & locked carry, or some shit like that. The switch to the M9 was the first time troops could carry a fully loaded sidearm.
This I can vouch for. It's the same in today's army. I just got back from Iraq, and the way we did it was the ONLY time you have a round in the chamber (or even have a magazine inserted, for that matter) is if you're in the gunner's turret and you're outside the wire or in the test fire pit. I suppose it's too much of a liability to trust the manual safety on our m4's.

That being said, we still had a few ND's / AD's (negligent discharge / accidental discharge)

The only ones who get issued the M9's are officers and medics, and the same rule applies to them - only it was never their job to be in the turret, so they never had a round in the chamber.
 
Old 10-07-2011, 05:29 PM   #12
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If your gonna pull it out, you better be 100% committed to using it, if not, your own weapon may be use on you.

PiNk
 
Old 10-08-2011, 05:39 AM   #13
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From: Port Orchard WA.
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carry

Not only do I carry all the time , But I open carry all the time and its not for any of the reasons the OP mentioned it is because it's my constitutional right to do so. And if we don't use our rights we will lose them.
 
Old 10-08-2011, 09:44 AM   #14
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Carrying a weapon is a personal decision. Carry however you are comfortable and confident.

I carry everywhere that I am legally allowed. ALWAYS!

I carry loaded and chambered. None of my carry guns have external safeties.
As far as not trusting your Tauruses safeties, YOU ARE THE SAFETY FEATURE FOR ANY WEAPON.
I also carry a spare magazine.

A good way to get comfortable carrying loaded. Is to carry for a few days with your pistol cocked but NOT CHAMBERED. After a couple days. Check to if your pistol has had an accidental discharge.
 
Old 10-10-2011, 12:13 PM   #15
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i pack the LCP cuz im not worried about something actually happening, because the chances are just so slim, but Be prepared is what i was taught. and i would rather have something little that is easy to deal with 24/7 then something im always worried about exposing or whatever. but it depends on the situation completely.. if you know you will be somewhere you arent sure about then choose the right tool for the job b4 you leave the house.
 
Old 10-10-2011, 03:13 PM   #16
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I've never carried..

I know I'm in the vast minority here. I am all for our first amendment right.
I will vote to protect it on my behalf, your behalf and the behalf of every future gun owner who will benefit from my support. My dad is never without some kind of firearm (even by the bathtub lol)


SO why the fuck don't I carry a gun?


I dunno.. I guess I figure after 37 yrs I kind of know how to avoid trouble. It's not the smartest argument. You never know what your gonna get right? and "It happened to me" stories.

I think carrying is important and necessary for some/many.. I'm just too lazy.


The other side of the stick is would I protect other citizens in harms way out in public? I'm pretty damn sure if it wasn't my kids/family I'd have to answer no. That makes me a little sad. I believe in our country and the rights provided to us.. but the problem to me is the same as home defense.. In some cases it seems the bad guys have more rights than the victims esp in long drawn out liable suits..

If I use a weapon off my property I am very very very likely to face legal follow up. End up with names on lists.. bla bla bla. ya.. I'm paranoid. Whatever.


ANYWAY.. rambling on long enough. I'm glad you fellas carry and will be happy to be standing by you in that jewelry store when the bad guys come in.. Just remember to look for me on the floor.

ha ha












PS. Hey deloscielos / LaCenter I grew up in Amboy!
 
Old 10-10-2011, 03:46 PM   #17
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I carry every day that I possibly can. I always have at least a .380 in my pocket. Usually I have a .357 Sig IWB and the LCP in my pocket.
 
Old 10-10-2011, 06:44 PM   #18
Marksman
 
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From: Woodinville WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GixxerPete View Post
It's also interesting to note that the entire time (pretty sure it was the entire time?) the 1911 was issued to our troops, they were trained to carry hammer down on an empty chamber & rack the slide to get the pistol into action. I think this was widely ignored, (I know I would have!) but apparently they didn't think troops could handle cocked & locked carry, or some shit like that.
Well, there may be more to it. How many "series 80"s were floating around? Consider the loads (as in packs, etc. Not the 230 grain ball ) being carried and possibility of guns hitting the ground. Guns that weren't "drop safe". I get crap sometimes about my Sig 1911s series 80 pin safety. I WANT that thing! A couple minutes more work in a total tear down, but worth it!
 
Old 10-10-2011, 06:51 PM   #19
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As to the "carry every day" thing. It's probably a good idea until you can carry without "checking yourself". Concealing is easy. Not checking it with a "subtle" pat or brush of the arm from time to time took a while for me... Not proud of it. Just telling the truth
 
Old 10-10-2011, 09:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philster View Post
As to the "carry every day" thing. It's probably a good idea until you can carry without "checking yourself". Concealing is easy. Not checking it with a "subtle" pat or brush of the arm from time to time took a while for me... Not proud of it. Just telling the truth
Yeah I've been carrying for a few days now, and I keep doing that! Not sure why.. maybe to make sure it's still there? To check if it's covered all the way? Strange habit..

Quote:
Originally Posted by stumprat
A good way to get comfortable carrying loaded. Is to carry for a few days with your pistol cocked but NOT CHAMBERED. After a couple days. Check to if your pistol has had an accidental discharge.
I like this idea, I just may give it a try!

Thanks for all the input fellas. Much appreciated
 
Old 10-11-2011, 08:13 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philster View Post
Well, there may be more to it. How many "series 80"s were floating around? Consider the loads (as in packs, etc. Not the 230 grain ball ) being carried and possibility of guns hitting the ground. Guns that weren't "drop safe". I get crap sometimes about my Sig 1911s series 80 pin safety. I WANT that thing! A couple minutes more work in a total tear down, but worth it!
You have a good point there... I'm not sure how "drop safe" an old original 1911A1 was/is? I wouldn't worry about dropping my Springfield or Kimber, but an old A1? Not so sure.

I spose it comes down to risk assessment. Are the odds you'll need that pistol and need it RIGHT NOW higher than the odds of dropping it just right so it goes off? If I'm a soldier in combat, I'd want my sidearm ready to rock.

But the people who could truly answer this question would be combat vets from WWII, Korea or Vietnam that carried 1911s. Were they cocked and locked or hammer down on an empty chamber? We know what the training was, but was it ignored in combat?
 
Old 10-12-2011, 06:50 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deloscielos View Post
Yeah I've been carrying for a few days now, and I keep doing that! Not sure why.. maybe to make sure it's still there? To check if it's covered all the way? Strange habit..


I've been carrying a little longer. Approximately 17,155 days. It was pretty much no big deal after a week. It becomes one of those things where you know it't there without having to check.

As for carrying a weapon that has one in the chamber, if you aren't sure of the safety inherent in that firearm, perhaps you should consider a different firearm. When you find yourself in a situation where you need it right now, it could be fatal if you drew, pulled the trigger, and suddenly your brain connected with the fact that you didn't cycle the slide first.

I've always carried double action firearms. Revolvers in the early days and then as the double action Semi-Autos became more available, one of them. The last 10 years a nice Sig P-229 has been on my hip with the exception of the days I decide to carry my CZ75 SP-01. Both pistols will only fire when there is a finger on the trigger. No safety to "forget" either.
 
Old 12-22-2012, 01:13 PM   #23
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The only safety on my SPFLD 9mm sub compact is the pistol handle tang. THE safety is my mind.

One in the chamber and cocked all the time.
 
Old 12-22-2012, 11:26 PM   #24
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Nice bump!

I'm curious how it worked out for the OP.
 
Old 12-23-2012, 05:38 PM   #25
mjn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardlpalmer View Post
Nice bump!

I'm curious how it worked out for the OP.
Me too..

For years, I carried my P229 Sig.. but lately, it seems to large for decent concealment. I use my S&W 360PD for in town carry, and my Kimber Ultra CDP for everything else.

The key is to be very confident and competent with your firearm of choice.
 
Old 12-24-2012, 08:16 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadshot2 View Post
I've been carrying a little longer. Approximately 17,155 days. It was pretty much no big deal after a week. It becomes one of those things where you know it't there without having to check.

As for carrying a weapon that has one in the chamber, if you aren't sure of the safety inherent in that firearm, perhaps you should consider a different firearm. When you find yourself in a situation where you need it right now, it could be fatal if you drew, pulled the trigger, and suddenly your brain connected with the fact that you didn't cycle the slide first.

I've always carried double action firearms. Revolvers in the early days and then as the double action Semi-Autos became more available, one of them. The last 10 years a nice Sig P-229 has been on my hip with the exception of the days I decide to carry my CZ75 SP-01. Both pistols will only fire when there is a finger on the trigger. No safety to "forget" either.
I think carrying without the pistol cocked/one in the chamber is fine if you ALWAYS do it that way and train/practice that way. The 'Israeli method' has been proven to be very fast into action with practice. When the US military still issued 1911s, that was the manual of arms as well. (though I've often wondered if troops ignored that in combat?) The advantage of this method is it works the same regardless of the action of the pistol... SAO, SA/DA, DAO, or striker-fired. The disadvantage is that it requires both hands to bring the pistol into action, or a much more difficult one-handed slide rack off your person (like a belt etc) or some object.

That said, I personally don't carry all the time, but when I do it's 'locked & loaded' and either a striker-fired (XD) or DAO (LCP). I don't carry my 1911s, but if I did, they'd be cocked & locked.
 
Old 12-24-2012, 04:35 PM   #27
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Hey Pete, if/when you carry your 1911s do you have the safety on? I'm so use to the Glock that I don't use a safety with the M&P or Sig. But when I'm shooting the 1911 I tend to have it on -- but I stink at swiping it off from a draw position because I just never do it.
 
Old 12-25-2012, 09:19 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardlpalmer View Post
Hey Pete, if/when you carry your 1911s do you have the safety on? I'm so use to the Glock that I don't use a safety with the M&P or Sig. But when I'm shooting the 1911 I tend to have it on -- but I stink at swiping it off from a draw position because I just never do it.
Holy shit yes! I can't imagine carrying a 1911 cocked but NOT locked.... not safe! You have a manual safety version of the M&P? I know Springfield makes some XD models with manual safeties as well, IIRC it was in an effort to secure military contracts, and the military requires a manual safety. That may be true for S&W as well. Your SIG is a DA/SA, no? So yeah if I was carrying that, it would be hammer down on a live round, safety off.. that long/hard DA pull is your 'safety'. IIRC, the Beretta M9 has a decocker but no manual safety, though I believe civvy models you can get both, like I assume your SIG is. Can your SIG be carried cocked & locked as well? I know you can do that with some H&K variants. At any rate, the only safe ways to carry a 1911 is cocked & locked (preferred by most) or hammer down on an empty chamber.

That said, I don't carry a 1911 (yet) and before I did, I would definitely do a lot of practice draws etc to reinforce the muscle memory for the safety. In target shooting, I already flick it on if the gun is loaded and don't flick it off until I'm target, then back on as soon as I'm done. It's natural and I don't really think about it, but then again this is casual target shooting, not from a draw or under duress. I do practice bringing it from a low-ready position, and swiping the safety off as I come on target. If you use a thumbs-forward grip, this is pretty natural.

I'm still considering a SIG P938, which is essentially a mini-1911, so I'd definitely be doing the practice drills I spoke of before actually carrying it.
 
Old 12-26-2012, 12:45 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GixxerPete View Post
Holy shit yes! I can't imagine carrying a 1911 cocked but NOT locked.... not safe! You have a manual safety version of the M&P? I know Springfield makes some XD models with manual safeties as well, IIRC it was in an effort to secure military contracts, and the military requires a manual safety. That may be true for S&W as well. Your SIG is a DA/SA, no? So yeah if I was carrying that, it would be hammer down on a live round, safety off.. that long/hard DA pull is your 'safety'. IIRC, the Beretta M9 has a decocker but no manual safety, though I believe civvy models you can get both, like I assume your SIG is. Can your SIG be carried cocked & locked as well? I know you can do that with some H&K variants. At any rate, the only safe ways to carry a 1911 is cocked & locked (preferred by most) or hammer down on an empty chamber.

That said, I don't carry a 1911 (yet) and before I did, I would definitely do a lot of practice draws etc to reinforce the muscle memory for the safety. In target shooting, I already flick it on if the gun is loaded and don't flick it off until I'm target, then back on as soon as I'm done. It's natural and I don't really think about it, but then again this is casual target shooting, not from a draw or under duress. I do practice bringing it from a low-ready position, and swiping the safety off as I come on target. If you use a thumbs-forward grip, this is pretty natural.

I'm still considering a SIG P938, which is essentially a mini-1911, so I'd definitely be doing the practice drills I spoke of before actually carrying it.
I'm curious why you wouldn't carry with the safety off on a 1911. I would think any modern holster would provide secure coverage of the trigger. BTW, I'm not harping on it, I'm just curious why. Having an M&P, XD(s), PX, etc. in your holster hot, with no safety, seems commonplace. But virtually every 1911 shooter I know uses the safety. When I'm at the range I practice swiping the safety but I don't do this enough...

The Sig was DOA and no manual safety (or de-cocker). The long pull sure seemed like a safety to me, too.

The M&P is a Shield, so the safety isn't an option like it is on its bigger brothers.
 
Old 12-26-2012, 08:34 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardlpalmer View Post
I'm curious why you wouldn't carry with the safety off on a 1911. I would think any modern holster would provide secure coverage of the trigger. BTW, I'm not harping on it, I'm just curious why. Having an M&P, XD(s), PX, etc. in your holster hot, with no safety, seems commonplace. But virtually every 1911 shooter I know uses the safety. When I'm at the range I practice swiping the safety but I don't do this enough...

The Sig was DOA and no manual safety (or de-cocker). The long pull sure seemed like a safety to me, too.

The M&P is a Shield, so the safety isn't an option like it is on its bigger brothers.
Well for starters, I'd guess the triggers (bone stock) on my 1911s are around 4-4.5 lbs. On my XDs, Glock etc more like 5.5-7.7 lbs. That's may not sound like much, but it's a big difference. My 1911s feel like a hair trigger in comparison (though a true 'hair' trigger would be even less, like 2.5 lbs) There is no trigger safety on a 1911 like a Glock, XD, M&P etc have. That would make holstering etc a lot more ND/AD prone. I'm also not sure if a 1911 is drop safe with the safety off. With it on, they are (exception being some old pre-Series 80 models). I could also say because it was designed to be carried in Condition 1, not 0.

Here I found some info from the late Jedi Master of 1911s, Colonel Jeff Cooper on the pros and cons of different carry conditions of 1911s.

The Sight 1911 Conditions of Readiness Page

At the very least you're going to raise some eyebrows and make folks nervous (like me!) if you carry like that. Condition 0 should really only be *after* the draw and you're ready to engage. It really doesn't take that much practice to get used to swiping the safety off as you draw.

As I said before, I do this all the time even when target shooting, as any time I make the pistol ready (one in the pipe) the safety goes on. Then as I bring the gun on target, I swipe it off. I should point out I've had a Glock for over 20 years now, and only had a 1911 for about two years or so. Yet operating the safety became natural and a habit pretty much immediately. Perhaps it carried over from rifles/shotguns, as I always treat them that way (safety on unless I'm on target). If I were to carry one, I'd still want to practice from a draw more, but then again you'd always want to do that with any carry gun.

So when are we gonna go shooting? You can try out my 1911s, but no Condition 0!

Last edited by GixxerPete; 12-26-2012 at 08:37 AM.
 
Old 12-26-2012, 11:40 AM   #31
Sniper
 
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Joined: Jan 2009
From: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 1,318
Yeah, again I wasn't arguing for/against it, just curious. I know most have a grip safety...

For me I'm sure it's the fact I don't draw with mine. I shoot it at the range and it ends up on/off the table rather than my hip. If I drew with it I don't see it as a problem to practice swiping it off.

When are you available? I've taken a month off work so I'm pretty open through the middle of January. Have guns/ammo, will travel...

Oh, and I'm not officially addicted to IDPA. If you're down for that I'll be at West Coast Armory on Tuesday for their weekly shoot. Otherwise I'll be waiting for the next one in Renton (near your house, actually).
 
Old 12-26-2012, 03:23 PM   #32
Sharpshooter
 
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Joined: Jan 2009
From: Renton, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardlpalmer View Post
Yeah, again I wasn't arguing for/against it, just curious. I know most have a grip safety...

For me I'm sure it's the fact I don't draw with mine. I shoot it at the range and it ends up on/off the table rather than my hip. If I drew with it I don't see it as a problem to practice swiping it off.

When are you available? I've taken a month off work so I'm pretty open through the middle of January. Have guns/ammo, will travel...

Oh, and I'm not officially addicted to IDPA. If you're down for that I'll be at West Coast Armory on Tuesday for their weekly shoot. Otherwise I'll be waiting for the next one in Renton (near your house, actually).
I'm out of town til this weekend, so anytime after that. Outdoor venues are getting a littler harder to come by with the weather, but I can usually find one.

I have done the WCA IDPA before, but it's a lot of standing around for about 15 seconds of actual shooting... lol. I'm bummed they're not doing the fun steel matches at Renton F&G anymore. But I would like to go to a full match some time, like in Puyallup etc. Damon usually posts the dates when they get close, so could do that. Otherwise I'm down to go do some plinking in the woods some weekend.
 
Old 01-17-2013, 03:04 PM   #33
Gunslinger
 
Joined: Jan 2013
From: BURIEN, WA
Posts: 12
If the sidearm has a safety device on it,and you carry it, you had best have it in safe mode. One fairly common trait I am NOT seeing/hearing on this page is the After Action. If you have been trained by me, you have heard this quote; "Surviving the gun fight is the easy part....it is the jury trial that is the most risky".

One of the more significant issues on the 1911 platform from series 70 to 80 was the safety aspect of the weapon being jarred enough to go off....but consider this....any weapon that has a cocked firing mechanism, and no safety, is AT RISK OF ND. A poorly maintained weapon, a poorly carried/protected weapon, a worn out weapon can, and have negligently discharged. While the risk of ND is stupid ridiculous small....but a prosecutor will paint you as a reckless "looking for a gun fight" predator.

I have carried a 1911 for well over two decades. I have never carried it off safe. I have owned Glocks, and some of the modern sidearms that afford for no external manual safety. If you don't want to deal with a safety, it would be my advise to a client that they carry that weapon. Otherwise, carrying it in a safe, ready to deploy status is far better to a jury of your peers and shows a higher intentional level of training and responsibility. The far side of this argument is weapon retention. That safety could be the extra full second you need. I have seen both sides happen first hand. There is no "Cowboy" in carrying a firearm anymore. There is no margin for error ever. bear in mind, also, that the majority of pistols with an external manually actuated safety is also the way that the firing pin is protected from accidental engagement.

I am hoping I am not the minority here.
 
Old 01-17-2013, 04:45 PM   #34
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richardlpalmer's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 1,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by GixxerPete View Post
I'm out of town til this weekend, so anytime after that. Outdoor venues are getting a littler harder to come by with the weather, but I can usually find one.

I have done the WCA IDPA before, but it's a lot of standing around for about 15 seconds of actual shooting... lol. I'm bummed they're not doing the fun steel matches at Renton F&G anymore. But I would like to go to a full match some time, like in Puyallup etc. Damon usually posts the dates when they get close, so could do that. Otherwise I'm down to go do some plinking in the woods some weekend.
You going to the rally this Saturday? If not, there's a match by your place in Renton.
 
Old 04-22-2013, 08:28 PM   #35
Gunslinger
 
Joined: Apr 2013
From: Everett, WA
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyMinyard View Post
If the sidearm has a safety device on it,and you carry it, you had best have it in safe mode. One fairly common trait I am NOT seeing/hearing on this page is the After Action. If you have been trained by me, you have heard this quote; "Surviving the gun fight is the easy part....it is the jury trial that is the most risky".

One of the more significant issues on the 1911 platform from series 70 to 80 was the safety aspect of the weapon being jarred enough to go off....but consider this....any weapon that has a cocked firing mechanism, and no safety, is AT RISK OF ND. A poorly maintained weapon, a poorly carried/protected weapon, a worn out weapon can, and have negligently discharged. While the risk of ND is stupid ridiculous small....but a prosecutor will paint you as a reckless "looking for a gun fight" predator.

I have carried a 1911 for well over two decades. I have never carried it off safe. I have owned Glocks, and some of the modern sidearms that afford for no external manual safety. If you don't want to deal with a safety, it would be my advise to a client that they carry that weapon. Otherwise, carrying it in a safe, ready to deploy status is far better to a jury of your peers and shows a higher intentional level of training and responsibility. The far side of this argument is weapon retention. That safety could be the extra full second you need. I have seen both sides happen first hand. There is no "Cowboy" in carrying a firearm anymore. There is no margin for error ever. bear in mind, also, that the majority of pistols with an external manually actuated safety is also the way that the firing pin is protected from accidental engagement.

I am hoping I am not the minority here.
I carry a Glock, and there is no safety on it. There is the "safe action" internal stuff, but nothing like the 1911 safety...if there's one in the barrel, the Glock works by just pressing the trigger and *bang!*

So I do NOT carry it chambered. I practice drawing and racking...drawing and racking...drawing and racking...it's second nature now.

I'd guess there's 1,001 scenarios that could possibly happen...and very very few are of the "OMG draw now and shoot shoot shoot!!" type.

I could be wrong, I don't do this for a living. (And neither do most of you, I'd guess).
 
Old 04-22-2013, 11:24 PM   #36
Marksman
 
ShelbyGuy's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
From: Lacey, Wa
Posts: 356
sa/da triggers for the win
 
Old 04-23-2013, 06:29 AM   #37
Rifleman
 
thejrod's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: Marysville, WA
Posts: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardlpalmer View Post
I'm curious why you wouldn't carry with the safety off on a 1911. I would think any modern holster would provide secure coverage of the trigger. BTW, I'm not harping on it, I'm just curious why. Having an M&P, XD(s), PX, etc. in your holster hot, with no safety, seems commonplace. But virtually every 1911 shooter I know uses the safety. When I'm at the range I practice swiping the safety but I don't do this enough...

The Sig was DOA and no manual safety (or de-cocker). The long pull sure seemed like a safety to me, too.

The M&P is a Shield, so the safety isn't an option like it is on its bigger brothers.
Richard I'm hearing a lot of "tend to" and "sometimes do". That makes me very nervous to shoot with someone who says that. When using safeties, it's "I always". Otherwise you're not training the muscle memory properly and you're setting yourself up for a ND.

I wouldn't carry a glock, XS or M&P without the trigger safety. I wouldn't carry a 1911 without the thumb safety.

Last edited by thejrod; 04-23-2013 at 06:34 AM.
 
Old 04-23-2013, 09:50 PM   #38
Sniper
 
richardlpalmer's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 1,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by thejrod View Post
Richard I'm hearing a lot of "tend to" and "sometimes do". That makes me very nervous to shoot with someone who says that. When using safeties, it's "I always". Otherwise you're not training the muscle memory properly and you're setting yourself up for a ND.
You're hearing this from me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejrod View Post
I wouldn't carry a glock, XS or M&P without the trigger safety. I wouldn't carry a 1911 without the thumb safety.
I guess that's as good a reason as any...
 
Old 04-24-2013, 01:46 AM   #39
Marksman
 
Joined: Nov 2009
From: WA
Posts: 463
Carry techniques without a round in the chamber are foolish. You're preparing for the worst day of your life, why hinder your chances of surviving it? Before you carry a gun you have to realize that it is dangerous, it's a GUN! That's why we carry it! Don't trust the gun? Get a different one. Don't trust yourself? Get better training.

If the average cop can do it so can you!

Last edited by Brianaintright; 04-24-2013 at 02:37 AM.
 
Old 04-24-2013, 11:34 AM   #40
Rifleman
 
KrautBurner's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2009
From: Bremerton, Wa
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by deloscielos View Post
Also, when you carry publicly, do you carry with a magazine in, and one in the chamber? Or just a magazine in and not one in the chamber? I'm asking because I'm not sure I trust the safety on my Taurus
Quote:
Originally Posted by koorbloh View Post
if I have my pistol on me, it's loaded.

there's nothing an empty gun can do for you.

I'd never carry (for protection) a gun I didn't trust with my life.




if you're not sure about a particular firearm
take it to the range (or other safe place) and practace trying to get the safety to fail (with the gun pointed in a safe direction)

if it fails, send it back to the manufacturer
TAURUS will be happy to take care of it (they will even do some custom work (trigger job) while they have it)
my friend had an issue with one of the safety's on his 1911, he sent it in
got it back in less than 2 weeks
better than new
 
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