Carry at Indian Casinos?

BigStick · 03-09-2010, 11:27 AM

I think I remember reading something about this when I was going through the carry laws last, but I can't remember where.

Is it legal to carry into Indian casinos with your CPL?

I realize that to some extent, they have their own rules and laws, but I was wondering if there was somewhere that laid it out in writing? Some of them have "No Weapons" posted on their doors on the way in, but in WA, signs banning guns have no weight. Do they apply at the casinos because they are indian land, or do the signs still not matter?

I would like to know where to find the regulations, and possibly who to ask as far as the tribes go to figure it out if anyone knows.

Kolat · 03-09-2010, 11:46 AM

dt

Kolat · 03-09-2010, 11:46 AM

I'll just throw this out there take it how you will.

concealed means concealed.

T

BigStick · 03-09-2010, 12:03 PM

I live in WA and am primarily concerned with WA, but I have family and visit OR regularly, although, I am thinking if it is federally regulated, the rules might be the same.

If they just frown on it and can only ask you to leave, then yes, concealed means concealed, but if you ever had to use it for self defense, having an illegal weapon turns self defense into something a whole lot messier, and you end up being the one in jail. I prefer to avoid those sittuations if possible.

JayD1981 · 03-09-2010, 12:11 PM

Since casinos are private property, they can allow or prohibit firearms as they please. Also, reservations are not bound by washington premption law, so you may not even be permitted to carry a fire arm on that reservation at all. Best to check with the local tribal police first.

Kolat · 03-09-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigStick

If they just frown on it and can only ask you to leave, then yes, concealed means concealed, but if you ever had to use it for self defense, having an illegal weapon turns self defense into something a whole lot messier, and you end up being the one in jail. I prefer to avoid those sittuations if possible.

I would hope that you would'nt be using it unless you felt an imminent danger to yourself or someone you cared about. As the saying goes I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

T

BigStick · 03-09-2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayD1981

... reservations are not bound by washington premption law...

that's what I was thinking, but would the rest of the laws apply unless the tribe has specific statutes? Because I just remembered where I thought the WA law might cover this topic. It forbids the possesion of guns in any part of establishments that require a person to be 21 to enter (written for alcohol reasons) I wonder if this topic would fall under that umbrella, or if it is specifically up to the tribes.

JayD1981 · 03-09-2010, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigStick

that's what I was thinking, but would the rest of the laws apply unless the tribe has specific statutes? Because I just remembered where I thought the WA law might cover this topic. It forbids the possesion of guns in any part of establishments that require a person to be 21 to enter (written for alcohol reasons) I wonder if this topic would fall under that umbrella, or if it is specifically up to the tribes.

That could possibly cover it too. I try to stay up on current gun laws, but how laws are enacted on tribal reservations is a grey area that I'm not too familiar with. You best bet for the correct answer to your questions is most likely the tribal police for the reservation in question.

GregM · 03-09-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigStick

If they just frown on it and can only ask you to leave, then yes, concealed means concealed, but if you ever had to use it for self defense, having an illegal weapon turns self defense into something a whole lot messier, and you end up being the one in jail. I prefer to avoid those sittuations if possible.

I understand what you are getting at but I will refer to the old saying.....

I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

JuiceBox · 03-09-2010, 04:11 PM

i was at tulalip last nite. the sign on the door referenced an rcw, can't remember which one, but said no weapons, violators will be persecuted under rcw xx.xxx...at least i think it was an rcw...

GregM · 03-09-2010, 04:17 PM

Might have to do with alcohol, if they have alcohol.
Hey wait, RCWs aren't in effect on sovereign nation land.
Something sounds fishy

JuiceBox · 03-09-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregM

Might have to do with alcohol, if they have alcohol.
Hey wait, RCWs aren't in effect on sovereign nation land.
Something sounds fishy

i didn't look too closely. it was some legal dewy decimal number nonsense that didn't concern me because i left my firearm at home.

Skinny · 03-09-2010, 08:38 PM

In Oregon there like any other private business. If it's nit posted your good to go nits always a good idea to call them up before you go and ask security. If it's on a reservation it's up to the chief if you can come on to the reservation and if you can carry. I know when I was in the repo biz we had to call and ask for permission to come on to get a truck

Thanatos · 03-09-2010, 11:43 PM

I used to carry on the Tulalip reservation because it was in the area around where I was living in Arlington. I always wondered if it was illegal or not but I did it anyways. Never had any trouble though. I did notice that they had Tribal police pulling over and citing speeders on I-5 near the reservation too.

GregM · 03-10-2010, 06:11 AM

It sort of interesting that we seem to have come full circle.
Back in the cowboy days men/gamblers carried guns even though it was against some city laws. Those were the "belly guns" that were easily concealed from the sheriff and other "law dogs". Also derringers and pepper boxes (etc) that were small and easily concealable. Knives, walking cane guns and swords etc etc.

Where there's a will, there's a way

BigStick · 03-10-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregM

I understand what you are getting at but I will refer to the old saying.....

I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

I am not dissagreeing with that statement either, I just prefer to stay out of sittuations where it is a concern. I don't have to go to the casino, or if I choose to, I can make a point to be extra aware so it does not become an issue. I just like having as much info as possible. Knowledge can be a weapon and tool as well.

SneakySir · 03-10-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuiceBox

i was at tulalip last nite. the sign on the door referenced an rcw, can't remember which one, but said no weapons, violators will be persecuted under rcw xx.xxx...at least i think it was an rcw...

You cannot carry at all in any casino that serves alcohol for the obvious reason that you cannot carry in a liquor serving establishment. That's the RCW that the doors quote.

Skinny · 03-10-2010, 05:19 PM

In Oregon you can carry in places that serve alcohol. One thing I love about the hippies here

svytlana · 03-10-2010, 06:58 PM

you can carry in places that serve liquor on washington as long as it's not age restricted.

rcw 9.41.300 part d

as long as it's not age restricted over 21 only. it's ok to go into a resturant etc that serves liquor aslong as it's not age restricted, ie.. not the bar

SneakySir · 03-12-2010, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svytlana

you can carry in places that serve liquor on washington as long as it's not age restricted.

rcw 9.41.300 part d

as long as it's not age restricted over 21 only. it's ok to go into a resturant etc that serves liquor aslong as it's not age restricted, ie.. not the bar

Tulalip is 21 and over, you cannot carry. I've seen what happens if you do.

koorbloh · 03-12-2010, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SneakySir

Tulalip is 21 and over, you cannot carry. I've seen what happens if you do.

are you going to share with the rest of the class what happens?

JuiceBox · 03-12-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koorbloh

are you going to share with the rest of the class what happens?

you get to ride the totem pole

SneakySir · 03-12-2010, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koorbloh

are you going to share with the rest of the class what happens?

4 Tribal Officers and 2 County Deputies come in with weapons drawn and you learn quickly to follow instructions, then, you go to jail, regardless of your reason/excuse. ZERO Tolerance!

Skinny · 03-13-2010, 09:17 AM

Was it the reservation jail?

SnackCracker · 03-14-2010, 02:48 PM

Indian reservations are NOT under the laws of the state. Reservations are treated as their own "nation" and a CHL (OR) or CPL (WA) does NOT give you any right to carry a firearm on a reservation. It is up to the tribe whether to allow you to carry or not while on the reservation. The ONLY provision where you are allowed to carry is in your vehicle while on a main highway or thoroughfare.

If you are caught carrying in a casino, you will end up in jail - VERY ugly. If you are caught carrying on a reservation, but anywhere other than a casino, you will probably still end up in jail, or at minimum you will be detained and escorted to the "border" of the reservation. The Reservations have their OWN LAWS, OWN JAIL, AND OWN POLICE.

My wife is a tribal member of the Confederated Tribes Of the Chehalis (Lucky Eagle Casino in Rochester). The tribe also incorporated the land along I-5 as tribal property/reservation land (The Great Wolf Lodge etc....). I'm not sure how they handle CPL holders and CCW at the lodge or in portion of tribal land.

I agree - concealed means concealed... but accidentally printing or your shirt rides up - could make a VERY complicated and expensive mistake. They don't take kindly to "round eyes" breaking the law on the reservation.

koorbloh · 03-14-2010, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SneakySir

4 Tribal Officers and 2 County Deputies come in with weapons drawn and you learn quickly to follow instructions, then, you go to jail, regardless of your reason/excuse. ZERO Tolerance!

least rad thing I've read all weekend.

bummer.

SneakySir · 03-17-2010, 08:39 AM

Washington is one of 5 states that maintains certain rights over tribes that others do not. Thus, I think CWP still apply, at least, that's the impression I get from Tribal Officers.

GregM · 03-17-2010, 10:02 AM

I've only been in one Indian Casino once, and that was to see Jonny Lang

This is a good reason not to spend money there

hubers454 · 03-17-2010, 06:41 PM

carrying firearms on tribal land is reserved for tribal members only,,, of the specific tribe, Spokane-Spokane not Spokane-Kalisbel if you get my meaning ,,,, it has been that way forever. non tribal property owners are kinda in the gray area. I have heard that they are giving hunting/fishing permits in some areas for non members, I wouldnt want to get handed over from the tribal police to the FBI, federal prison wouldnt be very fun

Booga · 03-17-2010, 09:11 PM

From what I understand it's up to the tribal leadership. Get permission and you're golden. (standard IANAL disclaimer)

Wistrick · 03-25-2010, 07:33 AM

Grant Asher who is a PI that taught my CC class a few weeks back said this...Umatilla Res he would call and check on rules, but he stated for a fact that you don't wanna get caught with a weapon on the Yakima Res...

He didn't comment further....

Dan

03-09-2010, 11:27 AM	#1
BigStick Gunslinger Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Gig Harbor, WA Posts: 57	Carry at Indian Casinos? I think I remember reading something about this when I was going through the carry laws last, but I can't remember where. Is it legal to carry into Indian casinos with your CPL? I realize that to some extent, they have their own rules and laws, but I was wondering if there was somewhere that laid it out in writing? Some of them have "No Weapons" posted on their doors on the way in, but in WA, signs banning guns have no weight. Do they apply at the casinos because they are indian land, or do the signs still not matter? I would like to know where to find the regulations, and possibly who to ask as far as the tribes go to figure it out if anyone knows. __________________ Walk Softly... Last edited by BigStick; 03-09-2010 at 11:29 AM.

03-09-2010, 11:46 AM	#2
Kolat Marksman Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Spokane Posts: 317	dt __________________ 2009-2010 season 0 deer, 0 elk, 0 bear, 0 cougar, 14 malard,1 gadwall, 1 widgeon, 1 teal, 1 pheasant, 1 quail, 6 bufflehead, 2 geese.

03-09-2010, 11:46 AM	#3
Kolat Marksman Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Spokane Posts: 317	I'll just throw this out there take it how you will. concealed means concealed. T __________________ 2009-2010 season 0 deer, 0 elk, 0 bear, 0 cougar, 14 malard,1 gadwall, 1 widgeon, 1 teal, 1 pheasant, 1 quail, 6 bufflehead, 2 geese.

03-09-2010, 12:03 PM	#4
BigStick Gunslinger Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Gig Harbor, WA Posts: 57	I live in WA and am primarily concerned with WA, but I have family and visit OR regularly, although, I am thinking if it is federally regulated, the rules might be the same. If they just frown on it and can only ask you to leave, then yes, concealed means concealed, but if you ever had to use it for self defense, having an illegal weapon turns self defense into something a whole lot messier, and you end up being the one in jail. I prefer to avoid those sittuations if possible. __________________ Walk Softly...

03-09-2010, 04:17 PM	#11
GregM Rifleman Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Poulsbo, WA Posts: 178	Might have to do with alcohol, if they have alcohol. Hey wait, RCWs aren't in effect on sovereign nation land. Something sounds fishy __________________ Greg "If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation...to a continuance in union... I have no hesitation in saying, 'let us separate.' " Thomas Jefferson

03-09-2010, 12:11 PM	#5
JayD1981 Rifleman Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Richland, WA Posts: 105	Since casinos are private property, they can allow or prohibit firearms as they please. Also, reservations are not bound by washington premption law, so you may not even be permitted to carry a fire arm on that reservation at all. Best to check with the local tribal police first.

03-09-2010, 04:11 PM	#10
JuiceBox Gunslinger Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 38	i was at tulalip last nite. the sign on the door referenced an rcw, can't remember which one, but said no weapons, violators will be persecuted under rcw xx.xxx...at least i think it was an rcw...

03-09-2010, 08:38 PM	#13
Skinny Gunslinger Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Salem, OR Posts: 54	In Oregon there like any other private business. If it's nit posted your good to go nits always a good idea to call them up before you go and ask security. If it's on a reservation it's up to the chief if you can come on to the reservation and if you can carry. I know when I was in the repo biz we had to call and ask for permission to come on to get a truck

03-09-2010, 11:43 PM	#14
Thanatos Gunslinger Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Kitsap County WA Posts: 33	I used to carry on the Tulalip reservation because it was in the area around where I was living in Arlington. I always wondered if it was illegal or not but I did it anyways. Never had any trouble though. I did notice that they had Tribal police pulling over and citing speeders on I-5 near the reservation too. __________________ -Thanatos- "Fear not your enemies for they can only kill you. Fear not your friends for they can only betray you. Fear only the indifferent who allow the killers and betrayers to walk safely on the earth." -Edward Yashinsky

03-10-2010, 06:11 AM	#15
GregM Rifleman Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Poulsbo, WA Posts: 178	It sort of interesting that we seem to have come full circle. Back in the cowboy days men/gamblers carried guns even though it was against some city laws. Those were the "belly guns" that were easily concealed from the sheriff and other "law dogs". Also derringers and pepper boxes (etc) that were small and easily concealable. Knives, walking cane guns and swords etc etc. Where there's a will, there's a way __________________ Greg "If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation...to a continuance in union... I have no hesitation in saying, 'let us separate.' " Thomas Jefferson

03-10-2010, 05:19 PM	#18
Skinny Gunslinger Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Salem, OR Posts: 54	In Oregon you can carry in places that serve alcohol. One thing I love about the hippies here

03-10-2010, 06:58 PM	#19
svytlana Gunslinger Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: spokane Posts: 34	you can carry in places that serve liquor on washington as long as it's not age restricted. rcw 9.41.300 part d as long as it's not age restricted over 21 only. it's ok to go into a resturant etc that serves liquor aslong as it's not age restricted, ie.. not the bar

03-13-2010, 09:17 AM	#24
Skinny Gunslinger Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Salem, OR Posts: 54	Was it the reservation jail?

03-14-2010, 02:48 PM	#25
SnackCracker Newbie Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Lake Oswego, OR Posts: 2	Indian reservations are NOT under the laws of the state. Reservations are treated as their own "nation" and a CHL (OR) or CPL (WA) does NOT give you any right to carry a firearm on a reservation. It is up to the tribe whether to allow you to carry or not while on the reservation. The ONLY provision where you are allowed to carry is in your vehicle while on a main highway or thoroughfare. If you are caught carrying in a casino, you will end up in jail - VERY ugly. If you are caught carrying on a reservation, but anywhere other than a casino, you will probably still end up in jail, or at minimum you will be detained and escorted to the "border" of the reservation. The Reservations have their OWN LAWS, OWN JAIL, AND OWN POLICE. My wife is a tribal member of the Confederated Tribes Of the Chehalis (Lucky Eagle Casino in Rochester). The tribe also incorporated the land along I-5 as tribal property/reservation land (The Great Wolf Lodge etc....). I'm not sure how they handle CPL holders and CCW at the lodge or in portion of tribal land. I agree - concealed means concealed... but accidentally printing or your shirt rides up - could make a VERY complicated and expensive mistake. They don't take kindly to "round eyes" breaking the law on the reservation. Last edited by SnackCracker; 03-14-2010 at 02:52 PM.

03-17-2010, 08:39 AM	#27
SneakySir Gunslinger Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 35	Washington is one of 5 states that maintains certain rights over tribes that others do not. Thus, I think CWP still apply, at least, that's the impression I get from Tribal Officers. __________________ I LOVE MY COUNTRY, it's the government I don't trust!

03-17-2010, 10:02 AM	#28
GregM Rifleman Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Poulsbo, WA Posts: 178	I've only been in one Indian Casino once, and that was to see Jonny Lang This is a good reason not to spend money there __________________ Greg "If any state in the Union will declare that it prefers separation...to a continuance in union... I have no hesitation in saying, 'let us separate.' " Thomas Jefferson

03-17-2010, 06:41 PM	#29
hubers454 Rifleman Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Spokane Valley Washington Posts: 101	<tribal member carrying firearms on tribal land is reserved for tribal members only,,, of the specific tribe, Spokane-Spokane not Spokane-Kalisbel if you get my meaning ,,,, it has been that way forever. non tribal property owners are kinda in the gray area. I have heard that they are giving hunting/fishing permits in some areas for non members, I wouldnt want to get handed over from the tribal police to the FBI, federal prison wouldnt be very fun

03-17-2010, 09:11 PM	#30
Booga Gunslinger Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: WA Posts: 96	From what I understand it's up to the tribal leadership. Get permission and you're golden. (standard IANAL disclaimer)

03-25-2010, 07:33 AM	#31
Wistrick Gunslinger Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pendleton, OR Posts: 15	Grant Asher who is a PI that taught my CC class a few weeks back said this...Umatilla Res he would call and check on rules, but he stated for a fact that you don't wanna get caught with a weapon on the Yakima Res... He didn't comment further.... Dan

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