Brianaintright

I know many of us are riders, having come from PNW, but keep in mind not all motorcycle shops, especially those in B-Ham, are not always gun friendly.

A few days ago, a buddy of mine goes into a local shop for service. After it's complete, he's loading up his bike and the service writer comes outside and is pissed off because he's loading prior to paying. While he was loading the bike, his shirt came up, revealing his weapon. He goes inside to pay and the guy is on the phone. He pays and leaves.

A few minutes later, he gets a call on his cell phone from Bellingham's finest telling him the service writer accused him of "brandishing" after they were involved in an argument. When my friend asked that they pull the security tapes, the issue went away.

Guys keep in mind, people can accuse you of just about anything and you having a gun visible makes you an easy target. Most cops will look at both sides but even the accusation by a few boneheads can make your life miserable and not every place has video to corroborrate your story.

Just food for thought.....especially if you need your Kawi or Suzuki serviced in Bellingham.

bigggbbruce

Open carry is just that... if you have a shirt or jacket covering the gun even though it's on the belt... it is considered concealed....ask a sheriff...

and exposing the gun by surprise could be taken by mistake as brandishing... so yes be careful...video might be your demise...

Brianaintright

I'm well aware of the differences between open carry and concealed. I was making a point about when the average citizen can see your gun, they instantly have ammunition against you.

Thanks for the advice on asking a Sheriff about it.....I think I might know one or two.

bigggbbruce

I was stating because your headline was open carry... but you described concealed.. just saying...

FatFugg

OOOHHHH!!!! OOOHHH!!!! OOOHHH!!!!!!!!

I can name one LEO!!!!!!!!!!

pnwvolks

I had an issue with a women at a QFC tell me that I couldn't have that. She then went and started arguing with the manager that I was threatening to the people at the store. I over heard him tell her with a very loud and stern voice "you are safer with him here". She then stormed off and the manager caught up with me at the check out and said he always likes to know someone is exercising their right to carry. I dont really open carry, but sometimes you can see my gun if my jacket moves a certain way and i was bending over to pick up some groceries when she saw it.

So yeah people beware some times others freak out... People tend to forget its only been roughly 100 years since almost everyone in the west carried a rifle or pistol regularly just to the local store. How we forget where we come from.........

Teacher Todd

Thats a good example of why I like the rules in Oregon better. No brandishing if you are carry concealed with a permit and your gun becomes visible.

JayD1981

First off, a holstered gun by itself is not brandishing. I'm too tired to look up RCW 9.41.270, but an important part follows "in a manner, at a place, and time, that warrants the alarm for the safety of others or intends to intimidate." It takes more than a visible holstered pistol to be brandishing. Also if you open carry, they cannot accuse you of showing it to intimidate since it is visible the entire time. And open carry is perfectly legal in WA, you do not need a license to open carry, and cities cannot restrict it anymore than it is already restricted in RCW 9.41.300.

My .02.

Brianaintright

Jay,

You're right, a holstered weapon in and of itself does not consitute brandishing, however, as in this case, someone makes an unwarranted accusation about a verbal argument and aggressive behavior and if nothing else, you're going to have to talk to the cops. If they say you reached for or put your hand on your gun during that argument, while impossible to prove, it's enough for probable cause based on their statement.

Keep in mind, while agencies are putting out educational memo's about open carry (I helped draft ours) for officers and deputies, not all of them have.....and not all cops see things the way we do. In some areas, hippies abound and will feel threatened by your presence. While I am a fan of open carry and don't want to discourage it in any way, I just want people to think about their venue and consider the occasional trouble maker who might say or do things that could be costly.

deadshot2

Some arguments, like the one described in the OP, can get rather vocal. Some might feel that the introduction of a firearm, through inadvertent exposure, or just plain Open Carrying, might warrant alarm under the law. It's best, especially when carrying a firearm to just be civil. Wasn't there so I don't know how vocal this argument was but I've watched some real "doozies" in my years. Some reached the point where everyone around it went looking for cover.

Don't know how it works in cycle shops but I know that in the auto repair world you don't get your keys until you've paid.

bigggbbruce

That was my point about open carry but covered by a shirt as OP mentioned... concealed at that point.. Not the intent of the friend to expose in that manner but he did...some would call it brandishing.. as I have been threatened by a gun toter before as he lifted his shirt...

Teacher Todd

In my opinion that is the difference between your shirt or coat exposing and the intent to intimidate or threaten. In Oregon that would be unlawful use of weapon, from what I just learned and a class c felony, in the situation you stated above.

Iris Mark

We CAN open carry here... but.. since I have a conceal permit... I conceal.

FatFugg

No shit?

dsolie

Many WA PD's are being trained and re-trained on how to deal with OC'ers. Part of that training is a brush up on the firearm RCW's which includes brandishing.

A list of PD's training bulletins are here:
NorthWest Citizens Defense League - Downloads

Also a list written by Bill Starks (a well known WA 2a Supporter and OC'er) that covers most questions a gun owner asks: Washington State Frequently Asked Questions About Gun Carry

Brianaintright

I think many of you are missing the point here, we all agree open carry is legal and should be exercised. cops are getting training on dealing with those who choose to do so but just saying "open carry is legal" (or "i have a permit" if you're carrying concealed and someone sees you weapon) does not mean you won't run into problems.

The issue I was trying to raise is that if you're carrying and others know you have your weapon, those who are anti-gun or even just anti you can say you did something "aggressive" and then your on the hook. Maybe it's just a conversation with the police, maybe it's a citation depending on what your accused of you could even be arrested. Any way it turns out, you're impacted by their accusation.

I just wanted to pass this incident along not to start an open carry debate but to make you all aware that this could happen to you. If you have a confrontation, get witnesses, move to an area you know is on video, basically just cover your ass. Realize cops will have to follow up, and it's not always obvious who is lying so gathering evidence to support your version of events may be time well spent.

bigggbbruce

And I agree with the OP... my point was that open carry done correctly would have brought less alarm to the complaining party...

The fact that the shirt came up and exposed the weapon brought concern...

Be sure to carry properly and the chances are hopefully reduced in being hasseled for open carry...

dsolie

I have also noticed an increase in due diligence performed by 911 operators to ask specific questions that may help to identify if an officers presence is actually needed.

OC or CC doesn't matter, but if you are going to carry, besides knowing the laws you should also be prepared for contact and questions. Knowing the laws very well helps you in situations where people who do NOT know the laws (even sometimes LEO) diffuse the situation by education. Just don't be a holier than thou' person..

remember, an "armed society is a polite society".

bigggbbruce

True that...

When I open carry I am on my best bevavior... Smile and polite....