Newbie help?

sonofa · Jul 9, 2011

Hi everyone,

I reside in Washington.
I'm a legal alien (permanent resident, or whatever the newest term is) with a green card.

I originate from Europe where the laws are very different, and I'm confused

I grew up with guns. My Father was a police officer and was one of the few (then) who carried concealed as part of his work, and so despite stricter law and overall thought on gun ownership, our family was somewhat more realistic. As such I fired all manner of pellet guns and rifles in my youth, and upon entering the USA took to guns rather swiftly.

I want to purchase my first handgun for home security and also target shooting, but I'm incredibly confused.
I've heard many different things regarding Washington Law and it would be great to have some clarity before I make an almighty fool of myself somewhere to those with experience.

I've heard that you do not need to have a gun permit to buy a gun that will live in your own home at all in Washington.

If there is truth to this, then what is the permit actually for?

This question to those I know is usually met with "ah well there's a concealed permit as well", but in my limited research I've found that there's a regular handgun permit as well as a concealed, and again I'm back to my question of what is the regular permit actually for then? Especially if one isn't required for gun ownership in your own house.

As a legal alien, I'm apparently also bumped directly to concealed?

Finally, and I think this may be that I'm over-thinking things to a degree here, but I have previously in my life taken anti-depressants during my divorce.
As I understand it, they are entitled to turn down applicants for permits for what reads back as being fairly loosely based with nothing specific to gain any reassurance from.
I have read that this is only enforced, if that's the correct term, when an applicant has been committed to a mental facility?
I have not, I might add.

Without going into too much detail, it helped me through a difficult time that is now very much over.

Much confusion. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

68shooter · Jul 9, 2011

In the state of Washington you only need a permit if you are going to conceal your pistol on your person. Other then that you don't need a permit. And I have never heard of a regular permit.

Now since you stated your a legal alien maybe some things are different for you and I'm sorry but I have no knowledge or advice to give you on that point.

sonofa · Jul 9, 2011

I have no idea either.

The permit is nearly 100 dollars for an alien and as such I'm in no rush to purchase it if I don't need to as I have no intention to carry concealed at this time anyway.

Am I then right in thinking that with a gun and no permit, you are legally allowed to transport the firearms to ranges and so forth in the correct manner?

If nothing is needed for the purchase of a gun, what is the scenario like when you purchase one?
What kinds of identification are checked, etc? Any waiting times?

The government licensing site speaks of those with visas or out of state guests needing this alien permit, but I don't know if this includes permanent residents.
To make it even more confusing, they mention in the regular concealed permit requirements as using a green card as a valid form of ID, but again It's hard to say if this is lumped into the added need to apply for the alien firearms permit or not.
http://www.dol.wa.gov/business/firearms/faconcealreq.html

(Awaiting an email reply right now).

lyestille · Jul 9, 2011

sonofa said:
I have no idea either.

The permit is nearly 100 dollars for an alien and as such I'm in no rush to purchase it if I don't need to as I have no intention to carry concealed at this time anyway.

Am I then right in thinking that with a gun and no permit, you are legally allowed to transport the firearms to ranges and so forth in the correct manner?

If nothing is needed for the purchase of a gun, what is the scenario like when you purchase one?
What kinds of identification are checked, etc? Any waiting times?

The government licensing site speaks of those with visas or out of state guests needing this alien permit, but I don't know if this includes permanent residents.
To make it even more confusing, they mention in the regular concealed permit requirements as using a green card as a valid form of ID, but again It's hard to say if this is lumped into the added need to apply for the alien firearms permit or not.
WA State Licensing: Requirements - Concealed Pistol License

(Awaiting an email reply right now).

in Wa, you can open carry with minor limitations, Just as long as you remember that in the vehicle it must be unloaded and secure, you should have no problems transporting the firearm to the range.

deadshot2 · Jul 9, 2011

Two State Laws cover your circumstance:

RCW 9.41.173 which covers Alien possession of firearms and license requirements.

Also:

You can also possess without a license under RCW 9.41.175 but with restrictions those who have the Alien Firearms License are not subject to.

(3) For purposes of subsections (1) and (2) of this section, the firearms may only be possessed for the purpose of using them in the hunting of game while such persons are in the act of hunting, or while on a hunting trip, or while such persons are competing in a bona fide trap or skeet shoot or any other organized contest where rifles, pistols, or shotguns are used

Unless it is as stated above, an "alien" is not permitted to posses a firearm without the license. Please note that unless actually engaged in hunting, on a hunting trip, or competing in a bona fide event, just going out and "plinking" or "target shooting at a range" is not covered.

Might be cheaper and quicker to become a Citizen.

sonofa · Jul 10, 2011

It seems that there are many contradictions.

I term alien doesn't seem to always apply if you are as I am, a "permanent resident".
Perhaps the confusion I'm having is because I'm used to looking up Alien terminology for myself, when in this case it might not apply.

In fact, I read the following in the FAQ last night after I posted;
Who doesn’t need an alien firearms license?
A permanent resident alien (immigrant alien) with a permanent resident card.

I'll follow up on this when I hear back from them. I'm hoping they can clear the confusion.

JayD1981 · Jul 10, 2011

WA Law

RCW 9.41.171

Alien possession of firearms — Requirements — Penalty.

It is a class C felony for any person who is not a citizen of the United States to carry or possess any firearm, unless the person: (1) Is a lawful permanent resident; (2) has obtained a valid alien firearm license pursuant to RCW 9.41.173; or (3) meets the requirements of RCW 9.41.175.

Federal Law from 18USC922

(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose
of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable
cause to believe that such person--
(5) who, being an alien--
(B) except as provided in subsection (2), has been
admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that
term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and
Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));

(2) It shall be unlawful for any common or contract carrier to
deliver in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining
written acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or
other container in which there is a firearm.
(g) It shall be unlawful for any person--
(5) who, being an alien--
(B) except as provided in subsection (2), has been
admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that
term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and
Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));

So being a resident alien, that sounds to me that you have an immigrant visa. That would make you fine for both state and federal laws. Also I cannot find anything barring you from a concealed pistol license nor anything requiring you to get an alien firearm license first or at all. Also I am not a lawyer so this should not be considered legal advice, just what I could dig up. Seems as though to laws are to restrict nonimmigrant aliens, not those permanantly living here. Hope this stuff helps you.

JayD1981 · Jul 10, 2011

I checked with a friend who works for a gun store and they sell to green card holders, just have to be able to show you have been a resident for 90 days or more.

sonofa · Jul 11, 2011

Thanks to all,

I heard back from them today. They verified that for permanent residents, the gun laws are as those of citizens.
Likewise I would need to obtain the concealed permit (the regular one) and not the alien firearm license.

Can't pretend I'm not a little surprised by that, but it certainly simplifies things.

Rob.

sonofa · Jul 11, 2011

JayD1981 said:
I checked with a friend who works for a gun store and they sell to green card holders, just have to be able to show you have been a resident for 90 days or more.

Thank you particularly, JayD. I appreciate the time taken.

Rob.

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