Ammo Differences

qballrail · Mar 24, 2012

Questions on Ammo Differences

I've been waiting for Sportco to restock my Hornady Critical Defense 9mm ammo, and I have had to buy different ammo in the mean time. It seems I have 3 types...
1) Guard Dog 105 grain flat tips;

2) Gold-Dot 115 grain hollow point;

3) Winchester 147 grain hollow point.

I'm afraid I may have misunderstood the salesman about the Guard Dog rounds. Can someone please help me define the differences?

Also, is there such thing as "clean" range-rounds? After firing 150 rounds, my pistol is VERY dirty. I end up spending over an hour cleaning this thing.. and believe me, it's clean. I don't leave a speck of powder anywhere in the slide or stock. So.. is this just a silly question or is there a better brand for range rounds?

Any input appreciated

Thanks!

DevilDoc · Mar 27, 2012

qballrail said:
I've been waiting for Sportco to restock my Hornady Critical Defense 9mm ammo, and I have had to buy different ammo in the mean time. It seems I have 3 types...
1) Guard Dog 105 grain flat tips;

2) Gold-Dot 115 grain hollow point;

3) Winchester 147 grain hollow point.

I'm afraid I may have misunderstood the salesman about the Guard Dog rounds. Can someone please help me define the differences?

Also, is there such thing as "clean" range-rounds? After firing 150 rounds, my pistol is VERY dirty. I end up spending over an hour cleaning this thing.. and believe me, it's clean. I don't leave a speck of powder anywhere in the slide or stock. So.. is this just a silly question or is there a better brand for range rounds?

Any input appreciated

Thanks!

What type of gun are you shooting? Lol.. An hour to clean a pistol? Takes me less time to clean one of my AR's. You must have a really, really clean gun.

qballrail · Mar 28, 2012

DevilDoc said:
What type of gun are you shooting? Lol.. An hour to clean a pistol? Takes me less time to clean one of my AR's. You must have a really, really clean gun.

LOL! Yes. I guess I'm paranoid of misfires. I was taught very early about cleaning guns. My dad was meticulous about how clean a gun should be. Absolutely no dirt on the pad. It's a Ruger P89 DC.

DevilDoc · Mar 28, 2012

I've got probably 6 or 8k through my P97. Good guns.. I'll shoot a few hundred rounds in an afternoon, and it might take 15 min to clean it. Pull it apart, quick spritz of carb/brake cleaner into the barell (keep cleaners away from the polymer frame!!), and run a bore brush through it until the bore is spotless. Wipe the rest down with CLP, brush off any obvious grime with a toothbrush, and done.

qballrail · Mar 29, 2012

DevilDoc said:
I've got probably 6 or 8k through my P97. Good guns.. I'll shoot a few hundred rounds in an afternoon, and it might take 15 min to clean it. Pull it apart, quick spritz of carb/brake cleaner into the barell (keep cleaners away from the polymer frame!!), and run a bore brush through it until the bore is spotless. Wipe the rest down with CLP, brush off any obvious grime with a toothbrush, and done.

'

Maybe we just use dirty range rounds, I dunno. That's why I'm wondering if there is a better ammo I can be using. Is there a clean Range round out there? And what do you guys recommend for personal defense? Anyone use Hornady? And since I can't find the Hornady Critical Defense rounds for 9mm, is there another one that's just as effective or ? I know these are a lot of questions, but it never really occured to me. I've always used Winchester ammo.

DevilDoc · Mar 29, 2012

qballrail said:
'

Maybe we just use dirty range rounds, I dunno. That's why I'm wondering if there is a better ammo I can be using. Is there a clean Range round out there? And what do you guys recommend for personal defense? Anyone use Hornady? And since I can't find the Hornady Critical Defense rounds for 9mm, is there another one that's just as effective or ? I know these are a lot of questions, but it never really occured to me. I've always used Winchester ammo.

I use RBS reloads for my target shooting. $15 for 50 230gr FMJ at the gun show. I don't know of a "clean" bullet, but I do stay away from the Russian (Tula, Wolf) and really cheap stuff, because it tends to be a bit dirtier. I don't plink with the expensive stuff..

I keep my mag loaded with my own reloads when I carry. I don't remember what brand bullet they are, but pretty much any HP out of a 45 is going to be devastating. As far as a self defense round for a 9mm, pretty much any of the big name commercial HPs will do just fine. Hydra shocks seem to get consistantly good reviews. I don't own a 9mm, so maybe someone else can recommend a good round?

qballrail · Mar 29, 2012

DevilDoc said:
I use RBS reloads for my target shooting. $15 for 50 230gr FMJ at the gun show. I don't know of a "clean" bullet, but I do stay away from the Russian (Tula, Wolf) and really cheap stuff, because it tends to be a bit dirtier. I don't plink with the expensive stuff..

I keep my mag loaded with my own reloads when I carry. I don't remember what brand bullet they are, but pretty much any HP out of a 45 is going to be devastating. As far as a self defense round for a 9mm, pretty much any of the big name commercial HPs will do just fine. Hydra shocks seem to get consistantly good reviews. I don't own a 9mm, so maybe someone else can recommend a good round?

I used to use reloads but they jammed and misfired. Do I understand you make your own reloads? That might make a difference. I was told that HP can be slowed and deadly force reduced if it penetrates anything of heavy fiber, like a thick jacket (not body armor, just a jacket) True or not? Just like anything else out there, the selection is too extensive, in my opinion. I use Mag Tech RR, but have Guard Dog Personal Defense when I carry.

One thing I'm still unsure about is the difference between the HP & the flat tipped slugs.

GixxerPete · Mar 29, 2012

I like the Critical Defense for my sub-combact 9mm. But for my full size 9mms, I go with 124gr +P Gold Dots.

DevilDoc · Mar 29, 2012

qballrail said:
I used to use reloads but they jammed and misfired. Do I understand you make your own reloads? That might make a difference. I was told that HP can be slowed and deadly force reduced if it penetrates anything of heavy fiber, like a thick jacket (not body armor, just a jacket) True or not? Just like anything else out there, the selection is too extensive, in my opinion. I use Mag Tech RR, but have Guard Dog Personal Defense when I carry.

One thing I'm still unsure about is the difference between the HP & the flat tipped slugs.

I've only heard of hp/sp rounds not penetrating through clothing with very small caliber or underpowered rounds, and even those are fairly rare. A .45acp is neither small, nor underpowered. Lol.. In the case of your 9mm, I really don't think it would be an issue, honestly. A .22lr, or .25, maybe.. I know that in the Korean war, the M1 carbine (firing a pretty underpowered .30 pistol round) had documented instances of of bullets bouncing off the heavy quilted clothing of Chi-Com soldiers. The bad guy got knocked down, then popped back up. But this is a lot different than shooting a bad guy that's wearing a jacket.

Personally, I try and carry the largest pistol I can a) completely control through a full mag of combat speed shooting, b) make consistant accurate shots at combat ranges with either hand, and c) can carry discretely. I can fire a full 10 rounds out of my .22 Ruger 22/45 in about 5 seconds, and get %80-90 accuracy on an 8x8 steel plate at 40 or so yds. Clearly, I can shoot something bigger, right? I want the most powerful round that I can safely control. 9mm is a decent self defense pistol, and many police and armys out there use it to good effect. I carry a .45 because if I have to use it, it will absolutely end a hostile situation, almost regardless of where I hit someone.

Will a 9mm stop an attacker? Yeah, of course. Will 9mm Hydra-shocks adequately damage tissue to the point of incapacitation? Probably.. Maybe.. Will you have CNS disconnect if you don't make center mass hits on an attacker? Probably not. I'm not bashing the 9mm, i'm just trying to answer your question.

I'll have to lookup the difference between SP and HP. But off the top of my head, I believe the HP will transfer more kinetic energy, more quickly. Mainly a self defense application. SPs do a decent job, but i'd almost be willing to bet they penetrate a lot further than HPs. More of a hunting application. I don't see many SP pistol rounds until you get into the "whoa daddy" rounds, like .41/44 mag and hot .45LC (not saying they're not available for other rounds). If you figure that the depth of the average chest cavity is 12-14 inches or so, you want a round that that will deliver all of its power within that cavity. Pass through is dangerous, and a waste of potential energy, which is why most people dont carry ball or FMJ for self defense.

Also, depending on the design, SPs can have trouble traveling up steep feed ramps on semi autos. My Ruger will eat anything (so far), but my buddies Dan Wesson .45 has issues with some rounds that have exposed lead at the front. I know there are SPs available for most revolvers, but I just dont see it being the best option for self defense. I'd guess that FMJ became SP, then as bullet technology progressed, HPs took over.

That was a really long post.. I think I just answered about 5 questions that you didn't even ask. Sorry.

qballrail · Mar 29, 2012

DevilDoc said:
I've only heard of hp/sp rounds not penetrating through clothing with very small caliber or underpowered rounds, and even those are fairly rare. A .45acp is neither small, nor underpowered. Lol.. In the case of your 9mm, I really don't think it would be an issue, honestly. A .22lr, or .25, maybe.. I know that in the Korean war, the M1 carbine (firing a pretty underpowered .30 pistol round) had documented instances of of bullets bouncing off the heavy quilted clothing of Chi-Com soldiers. The bad guy got knocked down, then popped back up. But this is a lot different than shooting a bad guy that's wearing a jacket.

Personally, I try and carry the largest pistol I can a) completely control through a full mag of combat speed shooting, b) make consistant accurate shots at combat ranges with either hand, and c) can carry discretely. I can fire a full 10 rounds out of my .22 Ruger 22/45 in about 5 seconds, and get %80-90 accuracy on an 8x8 steel plate at 40 or so yds. Clearly, I can shoot something bigger, right? I want the most powerful round that I can safely control. 9mm is a decent self defense pistol, and many police and armys out there use it to good effect. I carry a .45 because if I have to use it, it will absolutely end a hostile situation, almost regardless of where I hit someone.

Will a 9mm stop an attacker? Yeah, of course. Will 9mm Hydra-shocks adequately damage tissue to the point of incapacitation? Probably.. Maybe.. Will you have CNS disconnect if you don't make center mass hits on an attacker? Probably not. I'm not bashing the 9mm, i'm just trying to answer your question.

I'll have to lookup the difference between SP and HP. But off the top of my head, I believe the HP will transfer more kinetic energy, more quickly. Mainly a self defense application. SPs do a decent job, but i'd almost be willing to bet they penetrate a lot further than HPs. More of a hunting application. I don't see many SP pistol rounds until you get into the "whoa daddy" rounds, like .41/44 mag and hot .45LC (not saying they're not available for other rounds). If you figure that the depth of the average chest cavity is 12-14 inches or so, you want a round that that will deliver all of its power within that cavity. Pass through is dangerous, and a waste of potential energy, which is why most people dont carry ball or FMJ for self defense.

Also, depending on the design, SPs can have trouble traveling up steep feed ramps on semi autos. My Ruger will eat anything (so far), but my buddies Dan Wesson .45 has issues with some rounds that have exposed lead at the front. I know there are SPs available for most revolvers, but I just dont see it being the best option for self defense. I'd guess that FMJ became SP, then as bullet technology progressed, HPs took over.

That was a really long post.. I think I just answered about 5 questions that you didn't even ask. Sorry.

Actually, THAT was what I was looking for, a good answer. No need to apologize. Both you and Gixxer answered my questions well, I LEARNED something this morning.

Also, I didn't take anything you said as "bashing 9mm." I know it's not the most powerful calibur out there, but it's also not the weakest. Fact is, I don't just shoot 1 round at a time, I pretty much empty the clip and a fairly accurate shot, unmoving target though. I was just wondering about the penetration into layers of clothing and you addressed that.

But I'd love to try out one of those simulators law enforcement use. I think that's a true test of one's aim and maybe of the weapon performance.

Gold Dots, you say, Gixxer? I have a box of those. I think in one of my clips too... is that the best?

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