richardlpalmer

Good article I thought some of you might appreciate. I shared it on FB some time ago, but realized I never posted it here...

http://ccjatraining.com/articles/CQB.pdf

qballrail

That is great info, Richard. Thanks! One question I have is when practicing drawing your weapon, is it best to dry-fire (empty) or use fake ammo? I remember when my dad was teaching me, he said to never dry-fire because the pin might break off... I dunno if he said that b/c this was on old S&W .38 Specials or if it was for guns in general.

richardlpalmer

You know, my whole life I've been taught to never dry fire a weapon. But lately I've looked into it and don't see what all the hubbub is about.

When we practice, we dry fire. And every day we shoot we dry fire (particularly with new weapons). But if you're wanting to practice FTF/FTE drills, then I'd use fake ammo.

Others may flame me. YMMV.

qballrail

Well, not to worry, I won't flame you...

sunofnun

some guns are prone to breaking pins.. some aren't.


My XD I will dry fire all day long.. Also my 1911's.

richardlpalmer

That might be it. I do it with 1911s, Glocks, XD/XDM, M&Ps (and a few odds & end Rugers). I wonder if it's more of a revolver (or semi) thing? Hmmmm, never had one break so I don't really know...

Brianaintright

Dry fire is fine on almost all centerfire semi auto handguns and is an outstanding training tool. Issues with revolvers and some .22's comes from how the hammer intersects with the frame. Without the cartridge to "cushion" the blow, the hammer strikes the frame and can snap the upper portion off into the empty chamber.

Buy snap caps.

After reading this article I can say I'm not a huge fan of Tom Perroni. Some of what he says makes sense but some of his philosophies are complete shit. "do you think you should ever be shooting at some at 25 yards?" fuck if I know Tom, but if he's a threat then I'd rather shoot him at 25 then at 3! I also love his thoughts on shot placement and his dismissal of shots outside of the brain / spine because a "motivated" individual will still be able to fight and kill you. FUCK that! You get tangled up, you shoot the guy anywhere, anyhow you can. If all I got is his damn pinkie toe, I'm shooting it center mass. You'd be surprised at how demotivating a round to the foot can be, if nothing else any reaction from said bad guy opens up other areas so you can move to more effective targets to end the fight. Use whatever tactic you can to create space to allow for more effective shots. Getting wrapped around the shot placement axel can be a show stopper.

Maybe it's just the way he presents but I'd like to know a bit more about this guy before I dropped any coin or bet my life on his teachings.there are much better instructors out there.

richardlpalmer

Some of it seemed sensible to me, but mainly it's just a perspective. I don't know how many people even think of this stuff.

I figure plan/drill for the worst and hope for the best. Every time I shoot I make sure I do off hand (supported & unsupported) shooting at 25 yards. Not my best groupings but I hit the target. I figure I'd rather have that option and not need it than need it and not have it.

BTW, we should go shooting again some time. You'd be surprised how different Corey is now than when you took him shooting for the first time. ;)

Brianaintright

Come on up!

We should make it a Sunday so Jose can come along. Tanya would like to see you too.

You guys are in a great location to hit up insights. Take their close quarters confrontations course with John Holschen. It will cost a few bucks but it's great instruction and you'll get real world skills beyond the ability to punch holes in paper. Any of their classes taught by Greg Hamilton or John will vastly improve your skills.

richardlpalmer

Sounds good. We're members at WCA and see their training offered. Been thinking about it, so thanks for the recommendation.

Do you ever get down this way anymore? I'm assuming with the kiddo it's tougher -- I mean, if you had some time off I'd imagine you'd want to spend it with the fam. But Jose was down here a few months ago for some poker -- maybe the both of you could make a trip. Strippers are on me!

(No, like literally -- I have to go. In fact, what the hell am I doing typing?!)

GixxerPete

I just read it and I'm with Boz. Some of it makes sense, as I've read it elsewhere too. But I would also disagree with the 25 yard thing. Sure the average is much less, but it's 'average' for a reason. You can find plenty of examples of LEOs having to engage a bad guy at 25 yards and longer, with only a handgun, sometimes even a snub revolver BUG! That's training & practice right there, and not just practicing at 7 yards. That may be less likely for the armed citizen, but still applies. Hell I shoot my handguns at 100 yards sometimes for practice.

I would also disagree with the shot placement thing. I don't care how big you are or hopped up on drugs you are, if your pelvis is shattered, you're going down, no two ways about it. I think it's pretty hard to argue that especially under stress, aiming center mass and keep shooting until the threat stops is the best approach for most people most of the time. And as Boz mentioned, not every bad guy is a drug-fueled crazy person that will take multiple rounds and keep on coming. Most people shot pretty much anywhere with any caliber gun are likely out of the fight. But of course you can't just assume that. But what better alternative is there than keep shooting and pistol whip them with your empty gun if you have to? Ask them politely to hold still while you line up a CNS shot?

qballrail

How about zombies?

Brianaintright

They are not real.

sunofnun

quoted for posterity..

boy are you gonna feel silly one of these days.

qballrail

Ammo manufacturers would beg to differ... so would a LOT of others, including the cops and the guy that had half his face eaten in Florida. LOL!

GixxerPete

What about em? Everyone knows the only thing that stops a zombie is a head shot. Duh. And you REALLY don't want to be engaging zombies at super close range. Or with a handgun if you can help it. I'd want an AR with a red dot/eotech type optic and lots of ammo!

qballrail

Duh.

GixxerPete

Well you asked!

qballrail

LOL! And you answered! *chuckle*