lionsgate01

I was wondering if someone could help me out with Washington state laws when it comes to having a firearm in your vehicle. I saw alot of info on conceal pistols and what not, but nothing on rifle and shotguns.
I drive a Jeep, therefore no locking trunk compartment, just a open common cabin. I put the case in the back in rear cargo area (behind the rear seats).
Does the gun case must be locked? If I buy a hard case, locking not a problem since they have padlock holes, but do soft cases have to be locked?
Does the ammo have to be in a seperate case/bag or can I have some shells with my unloaded shotgun on the inside of the case? If down the road, I also decide to get a pistol, I would then get a conceal pistol permit. If so, can a pistol that is unloaded and locked be a range bag with varoius types of ammo?
Also, if for whatever reason I get pulled over while go to or from the range, do I tell the officer right away I have a firearm(s) in my vehicle or simpily wait for them to ask? Sorry for so many questions, just new to all this and want to do things right is all. Thanks again.

Chris

sunofnun

hmm I don't know the RCW.

But I usually keep rifles and pistols in their cases (not necessarily locked many are just fabric cases)

Magazines unloaded always.

No ammo in guns w/out removable mags.

Ammo usually boxed or in containers in a seperate bag (pistol bag could have both pistols in individual cases and ammo in containers)

FatFugg

Way to many questions in no sort of organized order my head hurts from reading this.

XDmFanatic

RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.

(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.

See <http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050>

Brianaintright

Maybe this?

RCW 77.15.460
Loaded rifle or shotgun in vehicle — Unlawful use or possession — Unlawful use of a loaded firearm — Penalty.

(1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a loaded rifle or shotgun in a motor vehicle, as defined in RCW 46.04.320, or upon an off-road vehicle, as defined in RCW 46.04.365, if:

(a) The person carries, transports, conveys, possesses, or controls a rifle or shotgun in a motor vehicle, or upon an off-road vehicle, except as allowed by department rule; and

(b) The rifle or shotgun contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber, or is a muzzle-loading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed.

(2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if:

(a) The person negligently discharges a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway; or

(b) The person discharges a firearm from within a moving motor vehicle or from upon a moving off-road vehicle.

(3) Unlawful possession of a loaded rifle or shotgun in a motor vehicle or upon an off-road vehicle, and unlawful use of a loaded firearm are misdemeanors.

(4) This section does not apply if the person:

(a) Is a law enforcement officer who is authorized to carry a firearm and is on duty within the officer's respective jurisdiction;

(b) Possesses a disabled hunter's permit as provided by RCW 77.32.237 and complies with all rules of the department concerning hunting by persons with disabilities; or

(c) Discharges the rifle or shotgun from upon a nonmoving motor vehicle or a nonmoving off-road vehicle, as long as the engine is turned off and the motor vehicle or off-road vehicle is not parked on or beside the maintained portion of a public road, except as authorized by the commission by rule.

(5) For purposes of subsection (1) of this section, a rifle or shotgun shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the rifle or shotgun.

Mitey F

To summarize, unless you have a CCW, no loaded weapons in the car. If it's not loaded, and it's not "concealed" you're in the clear.

FatFugg

Let me see if I have this correct. If I have my Washington CPL I can have a loaded long gun in my vehicle just as I can have my loaded pistol, am I right?

Damon

No, you can not have a loaded long arm in your vehicle. CPL or not.

Trusty Wrench

This is the way I understand it also.

lionsgate01

So if I have my shotgun unloaded in a soft case or hard case in the back of my Jeep I'm fine? The case doesn't have to be locked?

fisheral87

My understanding is the same as Damon and Wrench,

No loaded long gun in any motorized vehicle for any reason.

CPL in order to have loaded pistols.

P.S. Fairly certain this applies to boats as well. Which is sort of a grey area IMO depending on what sort of activity you are engaging in.

BigStick

I don't think there is any requirement to have it locked or the ammo seperate. From all of the RCWs that I have read, you just have to have it unloaded. Long guns must always be unloaded in the car, even if you have a CPL. Mag can be loaded, just not inserted, and there is ne requirement to have the ammo in a seperate container.

StoneKnife

This! ^

Fast Eddie

*Mag can be loaded if you have a CPL and said mag is for Pistol. If it's for a long gun you cannot have it loaded or in the magazine.

In California, you need the gun, ammo, and mags locked and stowed. once you are in your hotel or parked in your motor home, it's your dwelling, they can come out.

Going into Oregon, You may without a CPL take your Pistol or long rifle to any firing range. It must be directly there and back, if they catch you at quizno's or Dick's sporting goods you're screwed.

This is stuffs I learn't in CPL class. it's handy info if you want to hunt wild pigs in Northern California.

Brianaintright

What RCW are you referring to?

77.15.460 (5) says you just can't insert loaded mags or have them attached to the weapon.

Mobil890

Washington State hunting regs reads as follows:

Loaded Firearms in a Vehicle
It is illegal to carry, convey, transport, possess,
or control a loaded shotgun or rifle in or on any
motor vehicle. A rifle or shotgun containing shells
or cartridges in either the chamber or magazine, or
a muzzleloading firearm that is loaded and capped
or primed is considered loaded.

Brianaintright

Regs need to be backed up by rcw. Title 77 covers hunting law and is specific in a detachable mag being ok. So, either the regs are referring to a loaded internal or inserted mag or there is another rcw to contradict 77.15.460(5).

Fast Eddie

I have misinterpreted that then, I have been emptying my pistol mags to go to the range. I'm definely getting my CPL, one of the reasons is that I had read and interpreted that I needed to empty my mags and lock the gun down separate from my ammo. I feel a little silly.

StoneKnife

Brian IS right in this case. So long as the loaded external mags are not inserted in the weapon you are G2G.

If you break down the statute, If ) the rifle ...contains ...cartridges in the magazine.

This means if the loaded magazine is in the weapon.

It does not mean if the magazine contains cartridges, it says and means the rifle.

To put it another way, if the magazine is empty and in the rifle, the rifle is not considered loaded.

The section is clarified in #5:

(5) For purposes of subsection (1) of this section, a rifle or shotgun shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the rifle or shotgun

For all the effort they put into drafting laws you might expect clearer language but in reality most of these things are written by staff, not the legislators.

richardlpalmer

RTFM!

(But seriously, here's a link to a PDF file that should answer pretty much all of your questions. You can get hard copies at any PD...: http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00511/wdfw00511.pdf)

Brent Yamamoto

Thanks for posting that Richard, that's a useful document.

richardlpalmer

I was going to take a picture of a copy I have sitting near by me but then thought I might be able to find a picture already out there -- no joy. Then just searched for the thing itself and found the link.

nwcid

Laws are written to say what you can NOT do. So if there is no law against something that means it is legal.

No there is no law even requiring it to be in a case. It can be laying right next to you on the seat if you choose.

Again no because there is no law that requires it to be even in a case.

Well it all depends on if it is loaded or not. Here is how WA defines loaded, RCW 9.41.010: Terms defined.

10) "Loaded" means:

(a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the firearm;

(b) Cartridges are in a clip that is locked in place in the firearm;

(c) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the firearm, if the firearm is a revolver;

(d) There is a cartridge in the tube or magazine that is inserted in the action; or

(e) There is a ball in the barrel and the firearm is capped or primed if the firearm is a muzzle loader.

So if your firearm does not meet any of those definitions then it is not loaded. There is no law that says they have to be in different areas. It is perfectly legal to have shells say on a sidesaddle or stock pouch. There are also several guns that have magazine carriers that attach right to the gun and having a magazine in them would also be legal.

This is one that is highly up for debate and there is no "right" answer. Assuming the gun is not exposed and not in a location that would cause an issues (say handgun in the glove box where you reach for your registration/insurance) I don't say anything. Generally you are being pulled over for a traffic violation which has NOTHING to do with your firearms. I am not going to be the one to bring a firearm into a situation that has NOTHING to do with the firearm.

If the cop asks I gladly tell them. If there is a situation (as described above) where the gun might be an issue I will bring it up. I know people say it makes cops feel safer to "know" but in reality unless you were planning on using your gun on the cop, and you told him before hand it really makes no difference.

These are the laws in WA, other states vary so keep that in mind if you travel. Here is a link you need to read and keep to read often, Chapter 9.41 RCW: FIREARMS AND DANGEROUS WEAPONS

Brent Yamamoto

nwcid's post was excellent, thank you!

In particular, I could not agree more strongly with what he says below. Concealed is concealed. There's generally no reason to bring a gun into the discussion in a routine traffic stop...

If someone feels very strongly about informing an officer, then I'd suggest simply handing the officer your concealed license along with your DL and registration. It's more subtle, you don't need to say anything, and it informs him in a professional way.

Fast Eddie

Massad Ayoob: Tips When Stopped By Police and Carrying a Firearm - YouTube

nwcid

Yes that video shows ONE way of doing it.

Now what would have happened in that exact situation had the driver not handed the permit with his license........ It would have been handled like any other stop the officer does.

I am not promoting one way or the other. Just saying.

Fast Eddie

One of the top priorities any LEO has is going home safely every night. When the officer ran your plate, or certainly when he runs your license he is going to come up with that information if you have a CPL, every stop involves a character/personality test. While I am not in favor of a law requiring disclosure upon any kind of contact with a LEO, I think that most of the time it's the right thing to do.

nwcid

I agree with you about them just wanting to get home safely. I have many LEO friends and work with them on a regular basis.

The problem I have is HOW does letting them know you have a gun ACTUALLY make them safer?

Not saying one way is right or wrong. Just saying both have advantages and disadvantages. I have a lead foot and been pulled over lots (clean record though) because I drive at least 500 miles a week. Not saying I have a gun has ALWAYS gone like any traffic stop. Saying I have one (because the situation dictated) has gone anywhere from "don't reach for yours and I won't reach for mine" to asking to to see it and having them run the numbers to see if it is stolen. When they want to see and run the guns this takes a lot of time even compared to just getting a ticket because it more stuff the LEO has to do.

richardlpalmer

To me it's similar to the anti-gun "think" that making it more difficult for you and I to get guns will produce a safer society.

If I'm NOT a criminal, I have no intent to harm any LEO at a traffic stop -- so what value is there bringing up that I'm armed. If I have an intent to harm an LEO in a traffic stop then why would I tell him anyway?

That being said, in more rural areas (particularly with sheriffs) I'd feel more comfortable and more willing to disclose this sort of thing -- simply because my experience has taught me they're a different kind of person than high-strung city cops...

Brent Yamamoto

I've had a permit for more years than I can remember now...and having a heavy foot I've been pulled over plenty.

Not once has an officer asked, and not once have I said anything about being armed.

It also helps that I don't act like a jackass towards the officer. (regardless of how I might drive)

I'm always professional and polite with police officers, but I'll never understand the desire to voluntarily provide them with information that is completely irrelevant to the situation. It just adds more time and drama to the traffic stop.

Fast Eddie

All good points to consider. Like I said, I don't want to advocate for more gun laws or control. I come from a farm community in Northwestern Wyoming, I don't live in Seattle Metro. My inherent distrust of all things government runs a little deeper than the average persons, I think. I have never had to deal with a "Jumpy" city cop before, so on the whole my experince with Law enforcement has been pretty good, outside of a few regulatory bodies that they run, and in those cases I am unarmed. I probably wouldn't disclose infomation if I picked up that they were rude or "Jumpy". While I generally am not for handing over authority to people that they don't already have, this might be the exception to the rule. It's entirely possible that I may one day take the cure for this, but for now, it is a good faith courtesy that I can extend to a LEO. I certainly respect the differing points of view that are being presented here.

Grover Manchild

Long gun in car is forbidden, even in trunk, unless it's unloaded. See RCW 77.15.460.

Fast Eddie

I've thought a lot about what you have said here, I find myself coming around to this point of view.

I'm opinionated, but teachable.

Brianaintright

I don't make a lot of traffic stops anymore but when I do and the driver advises he has a CPL, I usually check his driving status and send him on his way. Might talk guns a bit. Why? Because guys who are courteous to me makes me want to repay the favor. I also know the driver's been through a background check more thorough than what is normally run on a stop.

Not saying you should or shouldn't, just how I react to the situation. Different juridictions have different attitudes and agendas.

Fast Eddie

I grew up in Northwestern Wyoming, most of the LEO's back there were like you, they were the good guys. I Got pulled over by a Clark county Sherriff about 6 months ago because I had expired tags, he was really nice about it, verbal warning no ticket. I have some good friends that are LEO's who tell me like you say, jurisdictions and agendas are different depending on where you are. It seems It's not as simple as it used to be.

DerBarbarian

[QUOTE=Fast Eddie;26595]When the officer ran your plate, or certainly when he runs your license he is going to come up with that information if you have a CPL, every stop involves a character/personality test.QUOTE]

I actually asked my buddy who's a King County Sheriff's Deputy, he said that it no longer shows if you have a CPL or not when simply running your name. He said there's a separate search for that which isn't done on a routine traffic stop, he said he only runs it if he comes across a gun.

Fast Eddie

That's interesting, Life has a way of testing your assumptions, PNW forums tests almost all of mine.

richardlpalmer

lol

PT

I know this is an old thread, but I found PNW guns because of it and thought this PDF I later found could be useful to someone.

It's super concise and clear and hits all the important points.

www.washingtongunrights.com/ocdo/wgr.pdf

sunofnun

Nice find PT.

;)