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Old 09-18-2013, 08:57 AM   #1
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Arrow Starbucks is asking you NOT to open carry...

They are asking. NOT telling you.
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:46 AM   #2
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This is what happens when we don't heed their requests to leave them out of it. They kept asking us to leave them out of it, and people kept using Starbucks as a rallying place for OC events. Now they are making a change to their policy, asking us to stop. We brought this on ourselves for not listening to them.

Still won't be banned, but not welcomed. Sad.
 
Old 09-18-2013, 03:08 PM   #3
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yeah.. I think our enthusiasm fucked us over.


Hey this business is sensible (ie stayed out of the raging debate)

Pro gun guys took that as a green light to use starbucks..
I respect how they're handling it.

THEY ARE A FOR PROFIT BUSINESS... they are seemingly clear that they don't really give a shit if you've got a gun or not.. however it seems they don't want to be used as a tool/leverage for either side of the argument?
 
Old 09-18-2013, 04:25 PM   #4
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Starbucks Explains...

NBC NEWS LINK>>>Starbucks CEO: 'We
 
Old 09-18-2013, 07:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunofnun View Post
yeah.. I think our enthusiasm fucked us over.


Hey this business is sensible (ie stayed out of the raging debate)

Pro gun guys took that as a green light to use starbucks..
I respect how they're handling it.

THEY ARE A FOR PROFIT BUSINESS... they are seemingly clear that they don't really give a shit if you've got a gun or not.. however it seems they don't want to be used as a tool/leverage for either side of the argument?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
This is what happens when we don't heed their requests to leave them out of it. They kept asking us to leave them out of it, and people kept using Starbucks as a rallying place for OC events. Now they are making a change to their policy, asking us to stop. We brought this on ourselves for not listening to them.

Still won't be banned, but not welcomed. Sad.
^^ Bingo

I saw those pictures of people carrying AR15's into Starbucks and thought "you dumbshit." What did they THINK would happen?

Personally... open carry in public does nothing but harm our quest. Non firearm folk get nervous when they see someone carrying in public. Hell.... I do! I find myself looking the dude over very carefully trying to decide if he's one of the good guys or not. The first thing that comes to mind is "why isn't he carrying concealed?" Can't get a license? Likes to show off?

Neither of the above reasons are good....
 
Old 09-18-2013, 11:31 PM   #6
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The title of this thread is a bit off -- it's not just OC, it's "weapons" period.

Did this actually become an issue at some point? I remember there was the one day where people were carrying in their stores, but I didn't realize it had become an all-the-time thing. I'm wondering if there's more to this announcement than meets the eye.

But I have to say it's still a bit odd to say they don't want to take sides, so therefore we'd like to not have weapons in our store -- uh, that's exactly what taking a side is. I don't want to take sides on the racism debate so my store is making a "Whites only" water fountain...
 
Old 09-19-2013, 10:11 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjn View Post
^^ Bingo

I saw those pictures of people carrying AR15's into Starbucks and thought "you dumbshit." What did they THINK would happen?

Personally... open carry in public does nothing but harm our quest. Non firearm folk get nervous when they see someone carrying in public. Hell.... I do! I find myself looking the dude over very carefully trying to decide if he's one of the good guys or not. The first thing that comes to mind is "why isn't he carrying concealed?" Can't get a license? Likes to show off?

Neither of the above reasons are good....
There are many advantages to OC, but that is not the debate for this thread. I think the lesson to learn is that we need to respect peoples' requests in regard to their own proporty. A similar lesson that many keep not learning every time another great shooting spot gets posted with a "NO SHOOTING" sign. Be respectful, and good stewards. That will go way further to forwarding our cause than flaunting our guns and shoving our cause down the throat of a business that had asked to be left out of it.

We have turned a neutral party into another one against us. And we have noone to blame but ourselves. They took the stance we wanted them to, and then we pushed them away from it. Yay us!!!
 
Old 09-19-2013, 10:41 AM   #8
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There seem to be a consensus in the 2A community that the outcome is bad. I recall having discussions with most in this thread, that predicted this would go badly. We did not reach this consensus because we are all rich, handsome and brilliant (although it doesn't hurt) we reached it because it seemed fairly obvious.

There is a lesson to be learned in the 2A community here, and it involves speaking to folks that share similar views with us, instead of those who are neutral or opposed. We need to begin in our own camp to encourage each other to express our pro 2A views with wisdom and tact.
 
Old 09-19-2013, 01:01 PM   #9
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thats a great point..


We almost need to educate our pro 2a friends and family how to talk about our passion/resolve to shed a positive light on our community..


I work in an EXTREMELY liberal environment.. and am very alone (yet positively vocal) about my enthusiasm and respect for firearms.

I have had several co-workers ask to go shooting and get educated.. that is a great feeling getting someone to drop their mass media based assumptions and start to form their own opinion.
 
Old 09-19-2013, 04:58 PM   #10
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That's how it's done.
 
Old 09-20-2013, 12:07 PM   #11
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I'll weigh in real quick since I work at a starbucks. I think what happened is that when starbucks didn't support that ban or whatever a few years back and those I heart guns and coffee stickers started to show up, people got the wrong idea. As has been said as a company they were attempting to stay neutral but everyone wants them on their side. It wasn't a problem until that national guns and coffee day or whatever. I saw more guns than usual that day but a couple carried AR's into another starbucks down the road and I would imagine that happened in lots of places.

While unusual, it's not illegal. It is however bad for business. It makes most customers nervous and it makes a lot of employee's nervous. I mentioned this in another thread but a lot of the people at my store didn't even think it was legal. Well nervous employee's call the support center to see how to handle it and enough calls forces corporate to take action.

When I got to work wednesday (I think) the press release was printed out as well as a short letter to partners saying that we simply ask that people don't bring guns inside. We are told specifically that we are NOT enforcing anything here and are not to say anything to customers about any guns we do see. So while I suppose they are asking you to not bring guns in it seems more like a don't ask don't tell policy and please stop bringing AR's in the stores.
 
Old 09-20-2013, 02:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardlpalmer View Post
The title of this thread is a bit off -- it's not just OC, it's "weapons" period.

Did this actually become an issue at some point? I remember there was the one day where people were carrying in their stores, but I didn't realize it had become an all-the-time thing. I'm wondering if there's more to this announcement than meets the eye.

But I have to say it's still a bit odd to say they don't want to take sides, so therefore we'd like to not have weapons in our store -- uh, that's exactly what taking a side is. I don't want to take sides on the racism debate so my store is making a "Whites only" water fountain...
If you have your act together, nobody will know if your CC.
Does this mean I can't bring my longsword and Mace to Buck's?
I can understand Buck's side. Many people are not comfortable with unknown people with rifles on their shoulders and sidearms on their hips inside any buisness. These people complain to management. Management reports back to corporate. Corporate hears from anti-gun groups. "Do something or our members will boycott your stores".
The few screwed it up for the many.
 
Old 09-20-2013, 03:46 PM   #13
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They've made it clear they don't want weapons in their stores. We need to respect that. The guys who keep saying "no one will notice if you're concelaed" miss the point....they've asked us not to.

It's their property and we need to respect that. If we want our rights respected, we have to respect theirs.
 
Old 09-20-2013, 03:55 PM   #14
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You can pee in the pool, but we all have to swim in it, or stay out of the pool.
 
Old 09-20-2013, 09:32 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianaintright View Post
They've made it clear they don't want weapons in their stores. We need to respect that. The guys who keep saying "no one will notice if you're concelaed" miss the point....they've asked us not to.

It's their property and we need to respect that. If we want our rights respected, we have to respect theirs.
I'm curious, what do you (and others) do in these types of situations. I rarely think about checking if a place is a "Gun Free Zone" or not (and I realize SB isn't going that route), but even today I had to pick my son up from school as he'd gotten injured. I parked, walked into the office and signed him out.

Do you have a procedure where you sit in your car after parking, stow your weapon and then go into places like this? Is there some smooth way of doing it so passerbys don't see inside your vehicle and observe it? Or if you were out with friends (pretend you have some for a moment) and everyone went into a SB for a coffee, would you just wait outside or would you even think of it?

BTW, I'm not trying to be argumentative -- it's something that bears discussion. Driving to a place seems easy enough to figure out a solution -- although if you're in a car with others that don't even know you carry they might be alarmed when you stow your weapon. Being out for the day and ending up in a random business seems a bit tougher...
 
Old 09-20-2013, 10:45 PM   #16
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Well, you're cool picking up kids from school, there's an exemption for that but I think you have to be in the car.

As far as private businesses that ask us not to come in armed....easy - I don't go in if I have my gun. If I absolutely have to go somewhere where my firearm is not wanted, I'd leave it home but to be honest thats never come up. Nothing in those stores is worth my safety.

As far as starbucks goes, use the drive-through if you have to have their coffee.
 
Old 09-20-2013, 10:53 PM   #17
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RCW 9.41.280
Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

No mention of being in the car.
 
Old 09-20-2013, 11:06 PM   #18
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From opencarry.org as they interpret it

K-12 Carry RCW 9.41.280 - If you have a valid CPL and are picking up or dropping off a student you are allowed on the school grounds. Firearms are not permitted in school buildings.
NOTE: The Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act Restricts Carry to Permit Holders
 
Old 09-21-2013, 12:27 AM   #19
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thanks Eddie - thats what I was referring to - the pick up drive. you can't go in and you can't loiter. sorry I wasn't more specific.
 
Old 09-22-2013, 10:59 AM   #20
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Well the Starbucks thing isn't too worryful because it isn't even a "Gun Free Zone". But if you were out with some friends and you guys took the ferry someplace and ended up going to a restaurant where you had reservations -- but when you get there see a Gun Free Zone sign -- what would you do? You don't have a car and you can't now leave it at home. Do you just bail on your friends?

Or if you were out with your parents/family and they end up wanting to grab a drink at a pub you happen to be walking by -- what would you do?

Maybe these things don't happen to you. And maybe because you're LEO others already know your status so think about things that don't put you in a tough spot. But I'm curious what others do.
 
Old 09-22-2013, 03:31 PM   #21
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My circumstances are a bit different. Most of my friends are armed so it's never an issue. I have a two year old so that resolves most issues.

But, if I go out with non-le friends I always let them know I am armed. If they then want to go into a bar I'd remind them I can't go and suggest sitting in a restaurant where they can have a beer. I don't hang out with people that I feel uncomfortable telling them I have a gun. Hopefully they'd understand if you had to adjust plans. If not, then yea, I'd bail on them.

I guess a bit of pre-planning is important. Haveing a small safe in your car would also solve most of your issues.
 
Old 09-23-2013, 03:44 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie View Post
K-12 Carry RCW 9.41.280 - If you have a valid CPL and are picking up or dropping off a student you are allowed on the school grounds. Firearms are not permitted in school buildings.
NOTE: The Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act Restricts Carry to Permit Holders
I'm not sure I agree with their interpretation. How does it indicate that you can not enter the buildings? The RCW gives an exemption to the prohibition on entering "facilities". I interpreted that to mean buildings. If they are in the principle's office, or nurses office, or even just inside the doors waiting for you, you are ok as far as I can tell.
 
Old 09-23-2013, 05:45 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
I'm not sure I agree with their interpretation. How does it indicate that you can not enter the buildings? The RCW gives an exemption to the prohibition on entering "facilities". I interpreted that to mean buildings. If they are in the principle's office, or nurses office, or even just inside the doors waiting for you, you are ok as far as I can tell.
Read the RCW. Down at the bottom it lists exemptions. Subsection 6 covers it- (6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.

CPL drop off exemption is (e) so no, you can't go inside.
 
Old 09-23-2013, 11:09 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianaintright View Post
Read the RCW. Down at the bottom it lists exemptions. Subsection 6 covers it- (6) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.

CPL drop off exemption is (e) so no, you can't go inside.
Thanks for the clarification. I have read through it several times, and periodically have to do it again to remember details like that. It also doesn't help that in OR (where I grew up and visit often) I can carry inside schools.

Now that you pointed out the list of exemptions, I do remember coming to that conclusion before.
 
Old 09-23-2013, 10:00 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianaintright View Post
My circumstances are a bit different. Most of my friends are armed so it's never an issue. I have a two year old so that resolves most issues.

But, if I go out with non-le friends I always let them know I am armed. If they then want to go into a bar I'd remind them I can't go and suggest sitting in a restaurant where they can have a beer. I don't hang out with people that I feel uncomfortable telling them I have a gun. Hopefully they'd understand if you had to adjust plans. If not, then yea, I'd bail on them.

I guess a bit of pre-planning is important. Haveing a small safe in your car would also solve most of your issues.
Yeah, definitely different.

I run into situations somewhat regularly (and figure others do, too) where I might be doing something like a presentation (to whom I wouldn't announce I'm armed) and then want to go grab a bite to eat with co-workers and/or clients. But when we get to the restaurant it's packed -- except for the bar.

Solutions are there (excusing oneself, waiting outside, securing in vehicle, etc.). I figured this would be something others would find interesting to discuss. But it doesn't look like anyone else is engaging in the conversation, so we can let it die...
 
Old 09-24-2013, 06:13 AM   #26
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may not work for everyone, but you can get extra sleeves to put in multiple vehicles so you have options.

Amazon.com: Bulldog Car Safe with Key Lock,Mounting Bracket and Cable, Black (Exterior Size 8.2 X 5.9 X 2.2-Inch , Interior Size 7 X 5.25 X 2-Inch): Sports & Outdoors
 
Old 09-26-2013, 07:55 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie View Post
K-12 Carry RCW 9.41.280 - If you have a valid CPL and are picking up or dropping off a student you are allowed on the school grounds. Firearms are not permitted in school buildings.
NOTE: The Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act Restricts Carry to Permit Holders
I know this is in Washington but the Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act was actually deemed unconstitutional by the supreme court in 1995, but it dosent matter here in Oregon, we are legally allowed to carry in all public schools with a chl
 
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