why 10mm is so awesome.....

Kolat · 08-09-2009, 04:22 PM

Shooting at the range today and I was scoring hits on the 480 yard target with the glock, and the ones that did'nt hit were getting damned close.

Have witnesses too!

T

Guff · 08-09-2009, 05:47 PM

That's some impressive shooting. I'm guessing a lot of it has to do with your skill more so than the bullet.

Kolat · 08-09-2009, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guff

That's some impressive shooting. I'm guessing a lot of it has to do with your skill more so than the bullet.

Not really, at that range a gun that does'nt shoot very tight groups is going to be ALL over the place at that distance no matter how good or bad you are at shooting. Out of probably 15 shots I'd say all of them that did'nt hit the target got pretty close,

T

ecotechjosh · 08-10-2009, 07:18 AM

you should just put the guns away and get penis implant surgery T :)

edit***

Where were you shooting at anyways? That is some impressive shooting, how high were you aiming above the target hehe?

Kolat · 08-10-2009, 07:24 AM

was out at the mica peak range with sarahs cousin, First shot I held on the gong and kicked up dirt about 100 feet below it and to the side, 25 or so I'd say, second shot I held about 100 feet high and got my bullet impact level with the target but to the side still, held the same height and adjusted to the side and kicked up dirt behind the target with a near miss, then started firing for effect :-)

T

GixxerPete · 08-11-2009, 02:03 PM

I fail to see how this is any endorsement for the 10mm round, but for an accurate firearm? Would not any handgun capable of shooting tight groups do the same thing? Might not bang the gong as loud as 10mm would though.

GixxerPete · 08-11-2009, 02:05 PM

I should also note that when I play Fallout 3, my sidearm is a 10mm and I don't feel that it drops the bad guys as quickly as it should. I do have to scrounge/trade/kill for my bullets though, so could be inconsistency in the loads. However, the 10mm submachine gun works fairly well, and Sydney's 10mm submachine gun kicks butt. I didn't even have to kill her, she just gave it to me! Score!

Kolat · 08-11-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GixxerPete

I fail to see how this is any endorsement for the 10mm round, but for an accurate firearm? Would not any handgun capable of shooting tight groups do the same thing? Might not bang the gong as loud as 10mm would though.

Faster = less wind drift, and less bullet drop, and more retained energy when it gets there.
Took me a while but this is what I come up with for various autoloader cartridges for bullet drop out to 500 yards.
9mm, 147 grain RN FMJ bullet, 1000 fps, BC of .208 according to speer's web page.
zeroed at 25 yards
100 -11.14
200 -62.54
300 -161.61
400 -315.27
500 -530.41

.40 S&W 180 grain bullet, 1000fps, .164 BC, used the hornady since the speer was a different profile bullet.
zeroed at 25 yards
100 -11.36
200 -64.76
300 -169.29
400 -334.10
500 -568.86

10mm, same 180 grain bullet as the .40, 1350fps, .164bc
zeroed at 25 yards
100 -4.15
200 -35.49
300 -103.63
400 -216.10
500 -380.84

.45ACP, 230 grain RN FMJ, BC of .153, 850fps
zeroed at 25 yards.
100 -14.88
200 -86.13
300 -225.01
400 -444.65
500 -757.48

So the 10mm requires almost 200 inches less compensation at 500 yards than the comperable .40, and has almost exactly HALF the drop of .45 at that range.

As for comparable energy at that range.
9mm : 161 ft-lb
.40 :168 ft-lb
10mm : 216 ft-lb
.45ACP : 160ft-lb

I'm actually kinda surprised to see the .45 coming in dead last for energy at range also.

T

GixxerPete · 08-12-2009, 10:17 AM

Yeah I'm surprised on the energy of the .45 as well, but not surprised on the drop at all. I'm not a fan of 147 grain 9mm loads, and would be curious what a 124 or 115 grain load would do? Doubtful it would equal the 10mm, but seeing at the 147 grain is already in 2nd place, I would expect a decent improvement? The 10mm definitely wins the energy hands down though, with all the other relatively tied. Very interesting stuff!

The longest range I've fired a handgun was about 110 yards at Mig's place. Target was a man-sized silhoutte with 124 grain +P Gold Dots. I fired 14 rounds offhand standing and hit the target 10 times. No real grouping to speak of, but hits nonetheless. I was aiming about neck level on the target, so that matched up with the 11" drop at 100 yards fairly well. I'm confident with a little practice I could do a lot better.

After reading an article about cops that had to engage bad guys at ranges well past what most would consider "normal" for handguns, it got me thinking I should practice longer ranges as well. It may not be easy, but a handgun can definitely still reach out and touch someone at 100, 200 and more yards!

Guff · 08-12-2009, 10:44 AM

While it's cool and impressive that you can use a hand gun to hit targets at that range I guess the question in my mind would be, why not just use a rifle?

I know that you won't always have a rifle on hand like you might have a hand gun, but if a person is over 100 yards away is it likely that they are posing a threat to you? My guess would be at that range the chances are likely that they're running for their life away from you.

GixxerPete · 08-12-2009, 04:24 PM

^^ The assumption is you don't *have* a rifle. As was the case in the example I cited, which was cops using their duty handgun to fight bad guys at longer ranges.

For personal defense, you are correct in that it would be unlikely that you would be engaging anything at that kind of range, and shooting a fleeing person will get you in trouble.

BUT what if the zombies come, and you aren't near a rifle? Do you really want to wait til their 7 yards or less away to open fire? I sure don't!!!

Kolat · 08-12-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guff

While it's cool and impressive that you can use a hand gun to hit targets at that range I guess the question in my mind would be, why not just use a rifle?

No challenge. I can hit the same target every shot with no ranging shots using my rifle. Might be kinda fun using a .22lr to see if I could do it, but I'd have to use subsonics in order to get any sort of consistancy at that range, and range would be a bitch to find since they barely kick up any dirt when they hit.

T

Guff · 08-13-2009, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GixxerPete

^^ The assumption is you don't *have* a rifle. As was the case in the example I cited, which was cops using their duty handgun to fight bad guys at longer ranges.

For personal defense, you are correct in that it would be unlikely that you would be engaging anything at that kind of range, and shooting a fleeing person will get you in trouble.

BUT what if the zombies come, and you aren't near a rifle? Do you really want to wait til their 7 yards or less away to open fire? I sure don't!!!

Everyone knows that you could build a rifle from scratch before a zombie got close enough to you if you saw it at that kind of range.

GixxerPete · 08-13-2009, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guff

Everyone knows that you could build a rifle from scratch before a zombie got close enough to you if you saw it at that kind of range.

That's only if it's "Shaun of the Dead" type zombies. What if it's "28 Days Later" zombies? You'd have to be one helluva a fast gunsmith!

Pointman · 12-10-2009, 09:07 AM

I love my G-29.....

Ammo is plentiful since everyone believes the b.s. about it's demise so there stacks of 10mm everywhere.

It generates the knockdown of a .41 mag so I'm totally confident in it's reliability.

I'm still looking into a S&W 500 with a 4" barrel in the near future...I like weird cartridges..

carryabigstick · 12-10-2009, 07:38 PM

So Kolat, how often do you shoot at MIca? We went down there a few times last year but did not got his year.

Kolat · 12-10-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carryabigstick

So Kolat, how often do you shoot at MIca? We went down there a few times last year but did not got his year.

probably half a dozen times a year, generally I head up to a spot I know of north of deer park since I can shoot out to 500 yards there for free.

T

Sick Sigs · 02-03-2011, 07:41 PM

I've seen some videos on other forums of guys shooting long distances with a 10mm. It is an awesome round its just too bad more companies don't make a gun chambered in it. And the price of the ammo is crazyness.

Brianaintright · 02-03-2011, 08:02 PM

I'm not a fan of 10mm but I respect it's ability to reach out there. Luckily, I have a few other guns to go to instead of a handgun for long distances but if you really needed to make that 100 yard handgun shot and still have enough poop to grease the cheech, 10mm makes sense. How does it stack against the .357 or the .44 magnums at those ranges?

KrautBurner · 02-25-2011, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolat

Faster = less wind drift, and less bullet drop, and more retained energy when it gets there.
Took me a while but this is what I come up with for various autoloader cartridges for bullet drop out to 500 yards.
9mm, 147 grain RN FMJ bullet, 1000 fps, BC of .208 according to speer's web page.
zeroed at 25 yards
100 -11.14
200 -62.54
300 -161.61
400 -315.27
500 -530.41

.40 S&W 180 grain bullet, 1000fps, .164 BC, used the hornady since the speer was a different profile bullet.
zeroed at 25 yards
100 -11.36
200 -64.76
300 -169.29
400 -334.10
500 -568.86

10mm, same 180 grain bullet as the .40, 1350fps, .164bc
zeroed at 25 yards
100 -4.15
200 -35.49
300 -103.63
400 -216.10
500 -380.84

.45ACP, 230 grain RN FMJ, BC of .153, 850fps
zeroed at 25 yards.
100 -14.88
200 -86.13
300 -225.01
400 -444.65
500 -757.48

So the 10mm requires almost 200 inches less compensation at 500 yards than the comperable .40, and has almost exactly HALF the drop of .45 at that range.

As for comparable energy at that range.
9mm : 161 ft-lb
.40 :168 ft-lb
10mm : 216 ft-lb
.45ACP : 160ft-lb

I'm actually kinda surprised to see the .45 coming in dead last for energy at range also.

T

any chance you got the info on the .357sig also?
(just for reference)

BTW,
I love the 10mm round

but most 10mm handguns have huge grips (too big for my girley little hands

)

GixxerPete · 02-25-2011, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrautBurner

any chance you got the info on the .357sig also?
(just for reference)

BTW,
I love the 10mm round

but most 10mm handguns have huge grips (too big for my girley little hands

)

Have you handled a G20SF yet? Definitely a bit slimmer than the standard model. And I would hazard a guess that the G20/21 will be offered in the Gen 4 frame at some point, and with the interchangeable back straps it should fit a wide variety of shooter's hands.

KrautBurner · 02-26-2011, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GixxerPete

Have you handled a G20SF yet? Definitely a bit slimmer than the standard model. And I would hazard a guess that the G20/21 will be offered in the Gen 4 frame at some point, and with the interchangeable back straps it should fit a wide variety of shooter's hands.

no,
I'm not a Glock fan

just don't like the way they feel in my hand.

I feel they are well made quality carry/duty gun.
just personally don't like em'

08-09-2009, 04:22 PM	#1
Kolat Marksman Joined: Jan 2009 From: Spokane Posts: 371	why 10mm is so awesome..... Shooting at the range today and I was scoring hits on the 480 yard target with the glock, and the ones that did'nt hit were getting damned close. Have witnesses too! T

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08-09-2009, 05:47 PM	#2
Guff Rifleman Joined: Jan 2009 From: Bellevue Posts: 151	That's some impressive shooting. I'm guessing a lot of it has to do with your skill more so than the bullet.

08-10-2009, 07:18 AM	#4
ecotechjosh Rifleman Joined: May 2009 From: Spokane Posts: 170	you should just put the guns away and get penis implant surgery T :) edit*** Where were you shooting at anyways? That is some impressive shooting, how high were you aiming above the target hehe?

08-10-2009, 07:24 AM	#5
Kolat Marksman Joined: Jan 2009 From: Spokane Posts: 371	was out at the mica peak range with sarahs cousin, First shot I held on the gong and kicked up dirt about 100 feet below it and to the side, 25 or so I'd say, second shot I held about 100 feet high and got my bullet impact level with the target but to the side still, held the same height and adjusted to the side and kicked up dirt behind the target with a near miss, then started firing for effect :-) T

08-11-2009, 02:03 PM	#6
GixxerPete Sharpshooter Joined: Jan 2009 From: Renton, WA Posts: 519	I fail to see how this is any endorsement for the 10mm round, but for an accurate firearm? Would not any handgun capable of shooting tight groups do the same thing? Might not bang the gong as loud as 10mm would though.

08-11-2009, 02:05 PM	#7
GixxerPete Sharpshooter Joined: Jan 2009 From: Renton, WA Posts: 519	I should also note that when I play Fallout 3, my sidearm is a 10mm and I don't feel that it drops the bad guys as quickly as it should. I do have to scrounge/trade/kill for my bullets though, so could be inconsistency in the loads. However, the 10mm submachine gun works fairly well, and Sydney's 10mm submachine gun kicks butt. I didn't even have to kill her, she just gave it to me! Score!

08-12-2009, 10:17 AM	#9
GixxerPete Sharpshooter Joined: Jan 2009 From: Renton, WA Posts: 519	Yeah I'm surprised on the energy of the .45 as well, but not surprised on the drop at all. I'm not a fan of 147 grain 9mm loads, and would be curious what a 124 or 115 grain load would do? Doubtful it would equal the 10mm, but seeing at the 147 grain is already in 2nd place, I would expect a decent improvement? The 10mm definitely wins the energy hands down though, with all the other relatively tied. Very interesting stuff! The longest range I've fired a handgun was about 110 yards at Mig's place. Target was a man-sized silhoutte with 124 grain +P Gold Dots. I fired 14 rounds offhand standing and hit the target 10 times. No real grouping to speak of, but hits nonetheless. I was aiming about neck level on the target, so that matched up with the 11" drop at 100 yards fairly well. I'm confident with a little practice I could do a lot better. After reading an article about cops that had to engage bad guys at ranges well past what most would consider "normal" for handguns, it got me thinking I should practice longer ranges as well. It may not be easy, but a handgun can definitely still reach out and touch someone at 100, 200 and more yards!

08-12-2009, 10:44 AM	#10
Guff Rifleman Joined: Jan 2009 From: Bellevue Posts: 151	While it's cool and impressive that you can use a hand gun to hit targets at that range I guess the question in my mind would be, why not just use a rifle? I know that you won't always have a rifle on hand like you might have a hand gun, but if a person is over 100 yards away is it likely that they are posing a threat to you? My guess would be at that range the chances are likely that they're running for their life away from you.

08-12-2009, 04:24 PM	#11
GixxerPete Sharpshooter Joined: Jan 2009 From: Renton, WA Posts: 519	^^ The assumption is you don't have a rifle. As was the case in the example I cited, which was cops using their duty handgun to fight bad guys at longer ranges. For personal defense, you are correct in that it would be unlikely that you would be engaging anything at that kind of range, and shooting a fleeing person will get you in trouble. BUT what if the zombies come, and you aren't near a rifle? Do you really want to wait til their 7 yards or less away to open fire? I sure don't!!!

12-10-2009, 09:07 AM	#15
Pointman Gunslinger Joined: Jan 2009 From: Puget Sound, Wa. Posts: 84	I love my G-29..... Ammo is plentiful since everyone believes the b.s. about it's demise so there stacks of 10mm everywhere. It generates the knockdown of a .41 mag so I'm totally confident in it's reliability. I'm still looking into a S&W 500 with a 4" barrel in the near future...I like weird cartridges..

12-10-2009, 07:38 PM	#16
carryabigstick Gunslinger Joined: Dec 2009 From: Spokane Valley Posts: 44	So Kolat, how often do you shoot at MIca? We went down there a few times last year but did not got his year.

02-03-2011, 07:41 PM	#18
Sick Sigs Newbie Joined: Feb 2011 From: Spokane Valley WA Posts: 1	I've seen some videos on other forums of guys shooting long distances with a 10mm. It is an awesome round its just too bad more companies don't make a gun chambered in it. And the price of the ammo is crazyness.

02-03-2011, 08:02 PM	#19
Brianaintright Rifleman Joined: Nov 2009 From: WA Posts: 179	I'm not a fan of 10mm but I respect it's ability to reach out there. Luckily, I have a few other guns to go to instead of a handgun for long distances but if you really needed to make that 100 yard handgun shot and still have enough poop to grease the cheech, 10mm makes sense. How does it stack against the .357 or the .44 magnums at those ranges?