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Old 01-17-2014, 02:06 AM   #1
Marksman
 
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SBR bill - hearing next week?

SB 5956

Anyone have details on this or the best way to track it?
 
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Old 01-17-2014, 06:32 AM   #2
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http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/bil...Bills/5956.pdf

SB 5956 - 2013-14

sponsors- email them?

Hatfield
Sheldon
Braun

Last edited by ShelbyGuy; 01-17-2014 at 06:38 AM.
 
Old 01-17-2014, 08:46 AM   #3
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Hmm....

I read the bill.. doesn't look like it helps much?
Still have to be LEO, or Armed forces.. or and employee of a company with the clearance to build SBR's for LEO's or Armed forces..




Link to the pdf:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/bil...Bills/5956.pdf
 
Old 01-17-2014, 11:38 AM   #4
Marksman
 
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Subsection 2 looks pretty good. It's underlined cause its new.

(2) It is not unlawful for a person to possess, transport, acquire,
16 or transfer a short-barreled rifle that is legally registered and
17 possessed, transported, acquired, or transferred in accordance with
18 federal law.
 
Old 01-17-2014, 01:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianaintright View Post
Subsection 2 looks pretty good. It's underlined cause its new.

(2) It is not unlawful for a person to possess, transport, acquire,
16 or transfer a short-barreled rifle that is legally registered and
17 possessed, transported, acquired, or transferred in accordance with
18 federal law.
thought same^^
 
Old 01-21-2014, 06:05 PM   #6
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So I guess I was not picking up on that...


To me it reads:

1. it's not legal for anyone to own a sbr
2. it is legal for someone to posses, not own one if they are following federal laws
3. These people are not subject to (1.) peace officers, employees at authorized gun manufacturing facilities



What are the guidelines according to federal law around SBR's?
Is this for the living trust guys? Kind of like how it works now?
You technically can't own one.. but you can posses one that is owned by a trust?
 
Old 01-22-2014, 06:07 AM   #7
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Agree to the living trust, I would think the way it reads it will fall under the same laws as suppressors.
 
Old 01-22-2014, 08:27 AM   #8
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Interesting.
 
Old 01-22-2014, 02:35 PM   #9
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Possess = own

Same NFA rules as supressors. $200 stamp
 
Old 01-22-2014, 03:53 PM   #10
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Well that would be cool if it passes.

Though an SBR is not nearly as useful to me as a suppressor...(I still haven't purchased one of those).
 
Old 02-04-2014, 10:01 AM   #11
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Update.

Passed with ease. now on to the house?


SB 5956 - 2013-14
 
Old 02-04-2014, 10:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejrod View Post
Well that would be cool if it passes.

Though an SBR is not nearly as useful to me as a suppressor...(I still haven't purchased one of those).
Ditto. I've shot some SBRs, fun little 'toys' but IMO not all that practical/useful.


A suppressor OTOH....
 
Old 02-04-2014, 01:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GixxerPete View Post
Ditto. I've shot some SBRs, fun little 'toys' but IMO not all that practical/useful.
A suppressor OTOH....


I think 8-14" barrels are great in 0-150 yrds.
If you put a stock on my pistols, and they would most likely be pretty damn fun.
 
Old 02-05-2014, 06:22 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GixxerPete View Post
Ditto. I've shot some SBRs, fun little 'toys' but IMO not all that practical/useful.


A suppressor OTOH....

Please explain the widespread use throughout military, law enforcement then?

Many varmit / small game hunters prefer them primarily to have a smaller footprint in their backpack, lighter weight, less chance catching on branches and such in the woods.
 
Old 02-05-2014, 08:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelbyGuy View Post
Please explain the widespread use throughout military, law enforcement then?

Many varmit / small game hunters prefer them primarily to have a smaller footprint in their backpack, lighter weight, less chance catching on branches and such in the woods.
I'm not in the military (any more) nor in law enforcement. I don't regularly ride in a Humvee with a rifle and need to get in or out in a hurry & possibly under fire. I don't regularly kick down doors and clear buildings for a living either. All applications where I can see the benefit of an SBR, that don't apply to me and pretty much everyone else that's not military or LE.

I don't hunt either, so I can't really speak to that. But I'd think varmint hunters wouldn't want to give up the velocity and range you sacrifice with an SBR, seeing as most factory 'varmint' style ARs have 18"+ bbls on them. But again, I'm not a varmint hunter so that's just my opinion.

So for me, it might be a cool 'toy' but that's about it. Also let's not forget the ballistics of a .223 round and how that works, and velocity is absolutely the .223's best friend, and something you lose in an SBR. I'd have to dig up the info again, but there is a velocity threshold where a .223 round's effectiveness starts to be dramatically reduced.

Personally I think an SMG is better suited to that kind of task, and if I could I'd have something like a Kriss Vector instead of chopped AR. But again, that's just a layman's opinion. YMMV
 
Old 02-05-2014, 08:44 AM   #16
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Ok.


So sbr is a toy, but a smg is better suited?





a kriss vector with a stock would fall under the sbr guidelines, yes?

This bill isn't just about chopped up AR's its about any platform that has a stock that wants less than the 16” mandated barrel.

or

How nice it would be for some to have a 10.5-12" barrel with a suppressor for hunting or range time?

Last edited by ShelbyGuy; 02-05-2014 at 08:52 AM.
 
Old 02-05-2014, 09:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelbyGuy View Post
Ok.


So sbr is a toy, but a smg is better suited?





a kriss vector with a stock would fall under the sbr guidelines, yes?

This bill isn't just about chopped up AR's its about any platform that has a stock that wants less than the 16 mandated barrel.

or

How nice it would be for some to have a 10.5-12" barrel with a suppressor for hunting or range time?
Yes I do think that for room clearing, size/weight etc an SMG is better suited to that task than an SBR. Of course that assumes a full-auto SMG and that's a different can of worms. And a .45 ACP round out of a longer SMG barrel only gets better, where a .223 round gets worse with a very short barrel. But again, I don't do this kind of stuff for a living, so I have no real practical experience to base it on.

Hey don't get me wrong, I'm still all for this bill and hope it gets passed. And I'm not sure on the Vector, though I believe in semi-auto only configuration it's considered a pistol? But yes with a stock I'd assume it would fall under SBR guidelines as well.

As a non-hunter, I'm still curious as to the hunting applications of an SBR. The .223 round is already on the minimal side for deer, and is not even allowed in some states regardless of what it's fired from. Shooting that round from an SBR just reduces it's effective range and lethality. From what I know of varmint hunting, it's done from longer ranges with a scoped rifle. Who puts long range scopes on an SBR? Is anyone hunting prairie dogs at 200+ yards with SBRs? I sure wouldn't think so?

A shorter barrel with suppressor sure sounds nice for the range though.
 
Old 02-07-2014, 04:30 PM   #18
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From: Canyonville Oregon
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my sbr is my home defense weapon, it sits right by my bed side, perfect for clearing my house, then when its not by my bed it goes every where with me, its just easier to conceal and transport to keep with me all the time, i shoot it out to 450 yards at my local gun club with an aimpoint t1 no problem on their steel silhouettes. still trying to decide on the suppressor I want to run, I actually think they are pretty handy
 
Old 02-07-2014, 06:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducrider View Post
my sbr is my home defense weapon, it sits right by my bed side, perfect for clearing my house, then when its not by my bed it goes every where with me, its just easier to conceal and transport to keep with me all the time, i shoot it out to 450 yards at my local gun club with an aimpoint t1 no problem on their steel silhouettes. still trying to decide on the suppressor I want to run, I actually think they are pretty handy
Do you have ear pro at your bed side as well? One shot out of an SBR indoors and you'd likely suffer permanent hearing damage. Better deaf than dead, but IMO there's better choices for that. A suppressor would solve that though, obviously.
 
Old 02-07-2014, 07:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GixxerPete View Post
Do you have ear pro at your bed side as well? One shot out of an SBR indoors and you'd likely suffer permanent hearing damage. Better deaf than dead, but IMO there's better choices for that. A suppressor would solve that though, obviously.
I actually do, I've got a range pair of howard leight and a pair I keep with me wherever the gun is, also surefire on the gun, but that's one of the reasons I'm looking at the m4-2000, then I don't have to worry about the noise at night,

I'm just saying they are handy for certain things and sometime I just don't want to take one of the 16" barreled guns around
 
Old 02-10-2014, 01:26 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducrider View Post
I actually do, I've got a range pair of howard leight and a pair I keep with me wherever the gun is, also surefire on the gun, but that's one of the reasons I'm looking at the m4-2000, then I don't have to worry about the noise at night,

I'm just saying they are handy for certain things and sometime I just don't want to take one of the 16" barreled guns around
I hear ya. And I think with a suppressor, an SBR would really come into it's own. The noise/blast/flash issues would be all but gone, and you'd still have under 16" total length.

Now if only we could have full-auto suppressed Vectors.
 
Old 02-10-2014, 04:47 PM   #22
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On to rules commitee....email your reps....or ALL of them...


Committee Members & Staff
 
Old 02-10-2014, 05:04 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GixxerPete View Post
I hear ya. And I think with a suppressor, an SBR would really come into it's own. The noise/blast/flash issues would be all but gone, and you'd still have under 16" total length.

Now if only we could have full-auto suppressed Vectors.
I would love one of those, the perfect house clearing platform
 
Old 02-11-2014, 01:09 PM   #24
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Just cuz.

 
Old 02-11-2014, 10:13 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GixxerPete View Post
Just cuz.

Me gusta.
 
Old 02-18-2014, 04:41 AM   #26
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Tried a kriss, not too impressed.
 
Old 02-18-2014, 11:32 AM   #27
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SBR bill moved forward today with a 47-0 vote

SB 5956 - 2013-14
 
Old 02-18-2014, 06:45 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianaintright View Post
Tried a kriss, not too impressed.
I heard it was a pretty sloppy fit for the upper and lower, is it true?
 
Old 02-19-2014, 01:10 AM   #29
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There was some serious separation during rapid fire. It was a semi auto gun but I don't think I'd like to run one full auto. Recoil impulse wasn't bad but it's definitely different. I like a good old MP5 better. I've heard it referred to as a paint shaker and I guess that's as good a description as any.
 
Old 02-19-2014, 07:11 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianaintright View Post
There was some serious separation during rapid fire. It was a semi auto gun but I don't think I'd like to run one full auto. Recoil impulse wasn't bad but it's definitely different. I like a good old MP5 better. I've heard it referred to as a paint shaker and I guess that's as good a description as any.
I love mp5's
 
Old 02-19-2014, 12:18 PM   #31
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I called Representative Jinkins' office today and was told that the bill will be scheduled for a hearing soon. We have until 2/28 to get it out of the Judiciary and until 3/7 to get it passed by the House.

I called WACOPS to request that they show up for the meeting. They said they were sending a Mr. Lee to represent them at the hearing on Friday. I didn't know of any hearing on Friday and when I checked the agenda, the hearing was already canceled. So it should be early next week.

If anyone here can show up, please do. No reason why we can't have a few dozen people show up. :)

Randy Bragge
Belfair, WA
(360) 440-5889
 
Old 02-19-2014, 12:26 PM   #32
Gunslinger
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianaintright View Post
SB 5956

Anyone have details on this or the best way to track it?
Start here for anything WA Goverment related. Access Washington
Access Washington - Legislature
Bill information; Bill Information
SB 5956; SB 5956 - 2013-14
To find committee agendas, go to the House or Senate, click on the committee you want then on agendas; Agendas

Spend a few hours clicking around the site, lots to learn there.

Go here to sign up for legislative alerts; https://public.govdelivery.com/accou...subscriber/new

Cutoff calendar and other stuff; Agendas, Schedules and Calendars

Randy
 
Old 02-19-2014, 06:06 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I called Representative Jinkins' office today and was told that the bill will be scheduled for a hearing soon. We have until 2/28 to get it out of the Judiciary and until 3/7 to get it passed by the House.

I called WACOPS to request that they show up for the meeting. They said they were sending a Mr. Lee to represent them at the hearing on Friday. I didn't know of any hearing on Friday and when I checked the agenda, the hearing was already canceled. So it should be early next week.

If anyone here can show up, please do. No reason why we can't have a few dozen people show up. :)

Randy Bragge
Belfair, WA
(360) 440-5889
The bill has passed unanimously out of the Senate and is now on to the House of Representatives
Senator Barbara Bailey
(360) 786-7618 / 109 INB


I cant see it not passing at this point.
 
Old 02-20-2014, 11:00 AM   #34
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It has yet to be scheduled for a hearing. It is dead next week if there is not hearing.

Randy
 
Old 02-20-2014, 11:45 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
It has yet to be scheduled for a hearing. It is dead next week if there is not hearing.

Randy
which hearing, Rules committee?



SB 5956 - 2013-14


update 02/20/2014
SB 5956 passed the WA Senate today. (47-0) This strikes the language from the current law that forbids Short Barreled Rifles in WA State. Now we need to contact our house representatives and ask them to pass it there as well.

Last edited by ShelbyGuy; 02-20-2014 at 04:57 PM.
 
Old 02-21-2014, 07:17 AM   #36
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SB 5956 was first heard in the Senate Law and Justice Committee (fomerly known as Judiciary); public hearing followed by an executive hearing where it received a pass recommendation. It then went to the Rules Committee where it was scheduled for a vote on the Senate floor.

Now it is in the House. It is awaiting scheduling for a public hearing in the House Judiciary Committee. It has until 2/27 to have public and executive hearings in the House Judiciary Committee prior to going to the House Rules Committee where it has until 3/7 to be passed by the House.

Since the Judiciary Chair (Jinkins) suggested that she would give a Senate SBR bill a hearing, it is possible she is holding it hostage to force another committe in the House or Senate to give a bill she favors a hearing.

This give and take is what politics is all about; it probably had a lot to do with the silencer bill passing back in 2011. Did anyone hear Senator Kline urge the Senate to "show this bill a lot of love"? He didn't do it out of the kindness of his heart, he was persuaded somehow.

Randy
 
Old 02-21-2014, 08:39 AM   #37
Gunslinger
 
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I just got a WALEG Committee Agenda Update, SB 5956 is scheduled for a public hearing on 2/26 at 3:30 pm. The executive hearing for other bills is scheduled at the same time. In the past I've seen an executive hearing for a bill done right after a public hearing, so it is possible for the bill to get a pass recommendation on the 26th. Thank you Representative Blake.

If you can be there, please do so. If anyone wants to carpool to Olympia from the Belfair Bremerton area, I can take two people with me.

Randy
 
Old 02-22-2014, 01:48 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I just got a WALEG Committee Agenda Update, SB 5956 is scheduled for a public hearing on 2/26 at 3:30 pm. The executive hearing for other bills is scheduled at the same time. In the past I've seen an executive hearing for a bill done right after a public hearing, so it is possible for the bill to get a pass recommendation on the 26th. Thank you Representative Blake.

If you can be there, please do so. If anyone wants to carpool to Olympia from the Belfair Bremerton area, I can take two people with me.

Randy
Randy I'm a newby on the site,but I want to just say thank you for all you're doing on this,if I was home I'd be there to help support this. Again thank you.
 
Old 02-23-2014, 02:38 PM   #39
Marksman
 
Joined: Nov 2009
From: WA
Posts: 463
Here is the judiciary committee roster. Send an e-mail today if at all possible to all of them. Call thier office and ask for thier support. If any of you are LE or MIL, please let them know you support this legislation.

Committee Members and Staff
 
Old 02-24-2014, 01:16 PM   #40
Marksman
 
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From: WA
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Got a response from jinkins. It was...as expected. No commitments either way though
 
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