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Old 01-08-2010, 10:03 AM   #1
Gunslinger
 
Joined: May 2009
From: Lynnwood, wa
Posts: 40
Ar-10

So, I'm seriously considering buying a DPMS AR-10 from my local gun shop.

Wondering what everyone thinks about the .308 inside of the AR-15 carcass. I have no experience with the AR-10, but plenty of other combat style rifles.

Questions:

1. Is the .308 round more or less accurate
2. I imagine that the rifle is a little more "hard to handle", true or false?

Ammo price comparison? I know that .223 is very expensive right now, but not sure about .308.

Anyway, I'm getting ready to build a small arsenal and this might be the first purchase. Of course, I'll have to shop a little to make sure I am getting a good price.

$1200 sound about right?

If anyone owns one and wants to give an opinion, I would dig it.
 
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:41 AM   #2
Marksman
 
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From: Washington on the wet side
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308 is the new 30-06 (New is a relative term being as its over 40 years old)

308 can reach out and thump some one at 1000 yards

223 cannot penetrate the adobe walls of the buildings in Afganistan but the 7.62 x 39mm can so they brought back the M14 in 308 (7.62x54)

when everything went nuts last year 308s of all makes were goin for 2gs+ a pop

dont have any expiriance with DPMS but was trying to find a 308 when everything went nuts so to me the 1200 isnt a bad price

Last edited by KillermondoDude; 01-08-2010 at 11:48 AM.
 
Old 01-08-2010, 12:46 PM   #3
Marksman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillermondoDude View Post
they brought back the M14 in 308 (7.62x54)
.308 is 7.62x51, not x54. There's a BIG difference in the two.

Didn't want the OP to go look up the old surplus x54R ammo and think "wow, it's cheap".

.308 isn't cheap by any stretch of the imagination.
 
Old 01-08-2010, 01:29 PM   #4
Marksman
 
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my bad
 
Old 01-08-2010, 02:15 PM   #5
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I love the AR10. I have not shot one, but that will be my next build, or purchase...

I am going to sell my long range .223 to fund it.

I already have a remington 660 (60's vintage predates the 700) in .308 so I already have the round and am shooting it.. love the caliber..

Figured it makes sense to look at them.

From what I've read so far DPMS makes a great gun. Did a bunch of reading last year on arf just to see what it would take to build one.. looks like you might as well buy one for the trouble it takes to make one.

Seems like different manufacturers have slightly different lowers and uppers so it's not mix/match.
 
Old 01-08-2010, 02:41 PM   #6
Gunslinger
 
Joined: May 2009
From: Lynnwood, wa
Posts: 40
The long range appeals to me, as well as the stopping power of the round. I'm spot on with .223, but not much experience with the .308. I'm sure I'll be just fine.

Keep em coming, it's getting me excited.
 
Old 01-08-2010, 02:46 PM   #7
Rifleman
 
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From: Richland, WA
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I've been looking at the Armalite AR-10's for a little while. They are a bit more than DPMS though. I don't really care about long range shooting (I have my AR-30 for that), I just think they are interesting and could make a good deer hunting rifle.
 
Old 01-08-2010, 07:33 PM   #8
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From: Spokane Valley Washington
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Not all 308 ARs use the same parts, AR-15 interchange parts,, on the other hand watch out with the 308,,,, DPMS is a beast all alone
 
Old 01-09-2010, 07:30 AM   #9
Marksman
 
Joined: Nov 2009
From: WA
Posts: 463
Is this for work?

Not sure what your budget is but if you're looking for a .308 AR, it's tuff to beat an SR-25. No others are currently made to mil spec, they're basically range toys / hobby guns so if thats all you're looking for, then the AR10 and DPMS will suit you just fine. I've never been impressed with either. We had a few AR10's overseas and they went to shit very quickly. Barrel life is short and parts compatibility is inconsistent. Between the two, I like the AR10 build quality better but the DPMS takes M110 mags (7.62 Pmags are $15 that work!) true AR10 mags are expensive and the knock off's don't work so hot.

The Larue OBR might be worth a look but the jury is still out. Noveske is also making a slightly modified AR10 (again, more money) but it's reportedly "the shit" from the guys I've spoken with who have run them hard. Several local teams have purchased DPMS to replace their Remington 700's but I haven't met one DM who's been happy with the switch.

So, do a lot of research before you pull the trigger.

Ammo: price of 7.62 is about $500-$550 a case for reloads or plinking rounds. If you're buying for long range accuracy, double that for match ammo.
Accuracy: Depends on the platform and the ammo! generally 5.56 shoots flatter and is easier to shoot at extended ranges. 7.62 hits harder and is more wind resistant. The average paper bad guy on the range is readily dispatched with 5.56, so unless you're shooting something that cares, not much reason to step up.

Last edited by Brianaintright; 01-09-2010 at 07:39 AM.
 
Old 01-09-2010, 10:46 AM   #10
Gunslinger
 
Joined: Aug 2009
From: portland OR
Posts: 57
is this gun going to be for long range or are you looking for more power than the 223?

if you are looking for more power but only going to shoot 200-300 rounds then look at a 6.8, 458 socom, 450 bushmaster, or 50 beowulf upper.
These all have tremendous stopping power


If you are looking for long range look at 6.5 grendel upper stays supersonic out to 1000 yard. and they will shoot 1/2 moa or better, while it will be very hard to get that kind of accuracy out of a ar-10 in 308 even with a match barrel

these are just a few other options, around your price range.

Since these all fit on an AR-15 lower you can buy mutiple of the the uppers and just switch anytime you want to shoot a different caliber.

If you get the ar-10 lower you can also get some other rifle caliber uppers but they on average seem to cost more per upper and there are less options
 
Old 01-09-2010, 12:00 PM   #11
Gunslinger
 
Joined: Nov 2009
From: Yakima
Posts: 18
Well copper since you say your looking at long range, depending on your definition of long range, and since shooting at long range accuracy is by definition the only thing that really matters since any fool can squeeze a trigger I suggest you go with a bolt action heavey match grade barrel with a solid lament thumbhole stock and set it up for prone shooting (eye relief is diferent from standing to laying).

I would also forget about the 308, its drop is trmendous compared with a .300 win mag and dosent pack the energy or velocity to be as effective at long ranges.

The military is dumping the .308 and having the M24 rechambered for .300 win mag and lengthening the barrels to make them more versatile. A .300 has a few hundred more yards of killing range than a .308.

If you do chose to shoot the .300 for range and accuracy I suggest the 180gr nossler ballistic tip with 80gr of hogdon H1000 backing it up with Federal match grade primers. U will find this will cost you about 107 cents per round.

If your really serious I suggest barnes 168gr anf have them molly coated.

But you will find the Nosslers will do great at 1200 yds

As for rifles I've had the oppertunity to test many and I prefer the Browning M1000 eclipse with boss or a weatherby mark V unless your looking to drop 3000 plus.

And before you buy make sure you can get a 20 moa rail or better.

Last edited by Cody1877; 01-09-2010 at 12:04 PM.
 
Old 01-14-2010, 08:29 AM   #12
Gunslinger
 
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Joined: Dec 2009
From: Winthrop, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody1877 View Post
... barnes 168gr anf have them molly coated...
In my humble opinion... MOLY BAD, MOLY BAD, MOLY BAD,!!!
It's good for shooting cast lead bullets from a modern firearm as it lets you push them to around 2000fps without lead fouling, but the benefits with a jacketed bullet are negligible and you will learn about moly fouling.

With the higher temps and pressures achieved with jacketed bullets at standard velocities the pores of your barrel steel become impregnated with moly which is then chemically bonded to the steel. Then the as the moly builds up, it is no longer able to bond with the steel and begins to degrade, it will hold copper fouling like nothing else.

Now bear in mind that this is different than a moly treatment on a NEW barrel. In this case the moly is introduced to the steel and bonded by the heat & pressure...then left alone. Moly coated bullets and the constant reapplication can cause trouble.

Others may have different thoughts on this. But I have done a fair amount of research on this topic. The suggested benefits are tantalizing, but if you are really interested in LONGrange Precision Shooting...and cannot afford another barrel soon...be careful.
 
Old 01-14-2010, 08:31 AM   #13
Marksman
 
Joined: Nov 2009
From: WA
Posts: 463
I also do not care for moly coating. Added cost with no real benefit and some serious issues over the long haul.
 
Old 01-14-2010, 11:50 AM   #14
Gunslinger
 
Joined: Nov 2009
From: Yakima
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster4570 View Post
In my humble opinion... MOLY BAD, MOLY BAD, MOLY BAD,!!!
It's good for shooting cast lead bullets from a modern firearm as it lets you push them to around 2000fps without lead fouling, but the benefits with a jacketed bullet are negligible and you will learn about moly fouling.

With the higher temps and pressures achieved with jacketed bullets at standard velocities the pores of your barrel steel become impregnated with moly which is then chemically bonded to the steel. Then the as the moly builds up, it is no longer able to bond with the steel and begins to degrade, it will hold copper fouling like nothing else.

Now bear in mind that this is different than a moly treatment on a NEW barrel. In this case the moly is introduced to the steel and bonded by the heat & pressure...then left alone. Moly coated bullets and the constant reapplication can cause trouble.

Others may have different thoughts on this. But I have done a fair amount of research on this topic. The suggested benefits are tantalizing, but if you are really interested in LONGrange Precision Shooting...and cannot afford another barrel soon...be careful.
Molly has a slightly better coeffiecent which will give you les drop at range. And yes I am aware of the draw backs which is why I suggested the nosslers the fouling is absolutly minimal with a high coeffiecent but your right I dont shoot moly myself but I do have 40 loaded incase I need to make that ever important shot at 1100 yds. But shooting them for giggles is a fools errand.
 
Old 01-14-2010, 12:50 PM   #15
Gunslinger
 
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Joined: Dec 2009
From: Winthrop, WA
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Are you talking about ballistic coefficient (BC) or coefficient of friction (CF)?

Ballistic coefficient is what affects the flight of a projectile, it is based solely on the shape of the bullet and is unaffected by any coating. It is also what most affects downrange performance because a higher BC=more aerodynamic bullet. The higher the BC, the longer a bullet will retain velocity, less it will drop at a given velocity, at a given range and will thusly also retain more energy.

Moly can reduce the coefficient of friction. Meaning less friction between the bullet & bore. This in turn will allow the bullet to be loaded to higher velocities at the same pressure.


Example:
Lets use a standard .308 Win load of 45.5g of R17 under a 168g Sierra HPBT MK for 2400fps at a given chamber pressure.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ROUGH NUMBERS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, NOT TO BE LOADED^^^^^^^

Now say you moly coat one bullet, change nothing else. You will see velocity drop, maybe 50-70fps. The bullet slides out of the bore easier, not allowing pressures to build as high.

But...now you can use a slightly larger powder charge and reach a slightly higher velocity (maybe 50fps) at the same pressure as the original load. Higher velocity= flatter trajectory.

Does that make sense?
 
Old 01-14-2010, 01:43 PM   #16
Peashooter
 
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From: North Portland
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I have an Armalite AR10 it is my favorite rifle.
 
Old 01-14-2010, 06:26 PM   #17
Gunslinger
 
Joined: Nov 2009
From: Yakima
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster4570 View Post
Are you talking about ballistic coefficient (BC) or coefficient of friction (CF)?

Ballistic coefficient is what affects the flight of a projectile, it is based solely on the shape of the bullet and is unaffected by any coating. It is also what most affects downrange performance because a higher BC=more aerodynamic bullet. The higher the BC, the longer a bullet will retain velocity, less it will drop at a given velocity, at a given range and will thusly also retain more energy.

Moly can reduce the coefficient of friction. Meaning less friction between the bullet & bore. This in turn will allow the bullet to be loaded to higher velocities at the same pressure.


Example:
Lets use a standard .308 Win load of 45.5g of R17 under a 168g Sierra HPBT MK for 2400fps at a given chamber pressure.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ROUGH NUMBERS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, NOT TO BE LOADED^^^^^^^

Now say you moly coat one bullet, change nothing else. You will see velocity drop, maybe 50-70fps. The bullet slides out of the bore easier, not allowing pressures to build as high.

But...now you can use a slightly larger powder charge and reach a slightly higher velocity (maybe 50fps) at the same pressure as the original load. Higher velocity= flatter trajectory.

Does that make sense?
I dont know that your right I ll do my own reasearch which my initial impression suggests your right but while I was taught that I was also told it lessened the drag while in flight as well.
 
Old 01-21-2010, 01:30 PM   #18
Gunslinger
 
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Joined: Jan 2010
From: Lakewood, Wa.
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Not totally impressed with the AR10.. 2 yrs. ago, I was at the gravel pit north of Deer Park with my Saiga .308. There was a guy with an AR10 there.. I was hitting the clay targets at 350 yds. just as well as the AR10.. My $359.00 imported stamped reciever against a rifle that costs 3 times as much.. At least I can afford to feed my rifle with the savings. I'll take my Siaga anyday..
 
Old 01-07-2011, 05:12 PM   #19
Peashooter
 
Joined: Jan 2011
From: Yakima, Washington
Posts: 8
.
I am working on my AR 10 lower now.
Planning on armalite NM upper sometime this year.
Ill be watching your thread
.
 
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