Dodgeramstein

So my boss and I were discussing CPL's yesterday and he mentioned that once you get a CPL the police have a right to search your home at any given time without cause. I tried researching it and can't find anywhere that states, the Police/government have any right to enter your home without probably cause CPL or no CPL. Anyone have any insight on this or can point me in the direction to find out, short of calling the Sheriff's office which is my next step.


Thanks

koorbloh

do it.

I have never seen that in the laws.

that doesn't mean they aren't there.

Dodgeramstein

I have sent out an email to the snohomish county sheriffs office. I would think being a CPL holder that they still couldn't come into your home with out probably cause but we will see. Not like I have anything to hide but I know people that have heard this rumor and refuse to get there CPL just because of it

koorbloh

to me, it's covered under this:
I, however, am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on the innernets

I'd really like to see what they come back at you with. Please keep us posted!

Dodgeramstein

Thats exactly what I brought up but he said by getting your CPL you waive your rights to search/seizure without probable cause. I call BS but we'll see what they say


http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41

Dodgeramstein

Come to think of it the other one that gets me is: reporting a loaded firearm to a police officer. If you get pulled over for speeding are you required by law to notify the officer of the loaded firearm in the vehicle. I believe the law states you only have to if the officer asks.... obviously this is not a moral question because If your getting pulled over its in your best interest to notify the police officer of the firearm... but are you required to without being asked.....

Dodgeramstein

Just got off the phone with the State legislator... being a law abiding citizen with a CPL does NOT waive your right to unlawful search and seizure! Without a warrant the police cannot enter your home.

koorbloh

as it turns out...just because he can tell you what to do at work, doesn't mean he knows everything....


thanks for the update

Dodgeramstein

not gonna lie... I was a little nervous he was right :)

koorbloh

but...cops have better things to do that to enter homes for no reason.

BigStick

I think his opinion came from the legislation that was discussed earlier in the year as the assault weapons ban. As it was worded when still in committee, if you had a license to have an "assault weapon" it would have allowed police to inspect your home for some reason(I think either to verify it was stored properly or see if you had others, something like that). But that part was already being removed in the committee, and it didn't even make it out of committee.

So he could have been right, but we were all lucky enough that the legislation didn't go anywhere.

nwcid

We no where on the CPL form that you sign does it say you are giving up your 4th amend rights. Even buying NFA items (machine guns, silencers, ect) you do not give up your 4th amend rights. Having an 03 FFL (C&R) does not give up your 4th amend rights.

IF you have an 01 FFL there are some rules about when and what the ATF can inspect.

I see the WA state gun laws link was already posted and NOWHERE in there does it say you give up your 4th amend rights. If you live in WA read and know those if you are a gun owner. If you live in another state find your state and do the same, ATF Online - Publications - State Laws and Published Ordinances - Firearms, 2008 (29th Edition)

nwcid

In some states you are required to tell an officer that you have a gun when you come into contact with them. In WA there is no requirement to tell unless they ask, just like many other questions they ask. This can be found in the link above to the WA state laws.

Please tell my WHY "If your getting pulled over its in your best interest to notify the police officer of the firearm"? I 100% disagree with this statement. I would like to hear you answer then I will post mine.

fun4i

As soon as an officer runs your plate through LEDS he'll see that you have a concealed carry license. It's better for the officer to know if you are carrying or not so they don't have a doubt/ and know where in the vehicle the firearm is, in case you make fast movements to that area. Being forthcoming and honest can also leave the officer feeling a little more easy, vs not informing him and wondering what else you may be hiding from him or your reason for not telling him. Play nice with police and you'll find yourself in less altercations.

nwcid

Ok, so what if he knows you have a CCP, are you getting stopped for a weapons problem? If not what does the gun have to do with a traffic stop? If you are stopped for something involving a gun I agree that you should be up front about it. If he wants to know about your guns he will ask.

Why is it better for the officer to know, do you plan on pulling your gun for some reason?
Do you plan on making movements like you are going for a gun?
Do you plan on involving you gun in any way during a stop?

Do you tell the bank teller that you have a gun while making a deposit to make here feel better?
Do you walk around with a sign that says "I have a gun on me" sign to make people around you feel better since now they know for sure?

What else do you tell the officer? Do you tell them your whole life story so he can feel better and not think you are hiding anything? Do you tell them about your prescription medications so he doesnt think you are going to sell them on the street? Do you tell him about when you got pulled over last time so he knows you are an honest guy?

I am not hiding anything, I am simply sticking to the situation at hand, which for a traffic stop does NOT involve a gun.

I do play very nice. I DON'T bring a gun into a traffic violation (assuming that is why you are pulled over in the first place). What you are saying is YOU bring a gun into a situation that did not need it involved, I choose not to bring a gun into that situation.

Simply I choose not to bring a gun into a situation that does not involve one. If the LEO wants to bring a gun into the situation by asking that is HIS choice.

I travel about 500 miles a week or more. I have a lead foot and have been pulled over many times in the past 15 years and gotten very few tickets because of my good attitude. I have been asked about carrying firearms less then 10%, probably closer to 5% of those times.

I will say I have willingly told LEO's about my guns 3 times prior being asked but it was for a reason. Each of those times whatever paperwork (License, Reg, ins) were in the same space as a gun. I was not about to reach into those areas with a gun without telling the officer. Each time the officer told me to give him what info I had with accessing those areas. I got no ticket and sent on my way peacefully.

Dodgeramstein

both nwcid & fun4i have valid points and that was my point in bringing it up. Everyone has there own opinion on the situation and I don't feel that one opinion is more right then the other. Every situation may call for a different way to handle it. But legally you are not required... But as most people know the law is written, for the most part, to be openly interpertted. Same reason why I brought it up just to see how people felt about it and get some opinions.

BigStick

The other thing to consider is a difference between the two of you. In OR, the permit is connected in the database to your lisence, so when they run your driver's lisence, they will see that you have a permit. I don't believe that is the case in WA. Which would give less reason to offer that info up at the beginning. If he will find out anyway, you may as well tell him so he doesn't think you are hiding anything. If in WA, he won't know unless you tell him or you get out and get frisked, and you had better be telling him before that happens.

nwcid

Yes in WA car with data terminals will show if you have your permit. Again this has NOTHING to do with the reason you were stopped in most cases. If the officer wants to know more he will ask. Be polite and direct with your answers. I just dont volunteer info that is not needed OR has NOTHING to do with the situation.

What part of a traffic stop involves a firearm?

I choose NOT to bring a firearm into a situation that does not involve one. I am not sure why anyone would bring a firearm into a situation that did not involve one.

timebom

when I get pulled over i pull out my license and if carrying my cpp is right with it. I do remember one time getting pulled over in ID. he walked right up to the drivers window to get my paperwork, I was carrying and gave the (wa) permit with the paperwork and he returned to his car. Now he was young and I am sure pretty new to the job. When he came back to return my paperwork he appeared nervous and wouldnt come past the back door to give me my paperwork back. lol All I could think is that he should have been more cautious on the first contact, and should have been more relaxed that I let him know I was carrying.lol

Dodgeramstein

Keep in mind state law allows an officer to hold onto your pistol during a traffic stop...

I have also had an officer come back from running my info a little more hostile then he was before he found out I had a CPL. I didn't disclose the info at the time of the stop. I think every situation warrants a different attitude towards the stop. I really don't feel its always good to disclose that you have a loaded firearm but I also think sometimes you need to. depends on the officer

GixxerPete

Yes, like rid the world of all the evildoers speeding 5-10 mph over the limit on the freeway.

koorbloh

right.