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Old 08-19-2013, 10:17 AM   #1
Marksman
 
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Joined: Jan 2010
From: Sherwood, OR
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Local businesses pledge to go gun-free

What do you guys think about this? It sounds like the mayor is trying to say that simply having the sign on the door will be notification of tresspassing if armed. My inclination is that he would have no legal grounds for that assumption, and that nothing will actually change about how the armed tresspass laws are enforced, but I could see him trying to push it until he gets slapped down by the courts like happened with the parks a few years back.

"
SEATTLE — Local businesses are taking the pledge to stay gun free in the face of what one organization calls devastating gun violence.

Mayor Mike McGinn, Washington CeaseFire, and dozens of local businesses announced the launch of a new program designed to help local businesses become “Gun Free Zones.” The program increases the number “Gun Free Zones” around the city. Once signing a petition, participating businesses will place a “Gun Free Zone” decal sticker in their business, banning all customers from carrying a weapon — even with a valid concealed carry permit — into the store.

...
"

Local businesses pledge to go gun-free | Q13 FOX News
 
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Old 08-19-2013, 07:23 PM   #2
Marksman
 
Joined: Nov 2009
From: WA
Posts: 463
I guess it would depend on the working of the sign and the attitude of the prosecutor's office. Unfortunately, the cops who could normally stand up and say "bullshit" are in a tough spot with this guy.

The big thing is why do you care if it's enforceable? If it's private property, respect their rights, just like you want them to respect yours!

I'd go the other way. Let everyone know who's on the list and point out they do not stand up for the rights of the public. Ad campaign making them out to be unfriendly would dissuade other businesses from this practice. Encourage businesses to proclaim they are gun friendly and welcome CWP holders in with a discount or something.

I don't like boycotts and I wouldn't tell anyone not to shop somewhere but if they don't want me there, then I can spend my money elsewhere.
 
Old 08-19-2013, 10:39 PM   #3
Sniper
 
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Yeah, the enforceability doesn't sound too difficult from where I sit. It's just a matter of a private business being able to have whatever policy they want.

The thing is, it's a PR stunt. They're trying to make it sound like "banning people from carrying, even with a CPL" would be similar to being in a bar while carrying -- against the law.

If you're in a place that has one of these stickers and you didn't know about it, they could ask you to leave. If you didn't, then you'd have a problem. But if you did, it shouldn't be an ordeal, right?
 
Old 08-21-2013, 10:11 AM   #4
Gunslinger
 
Joined: Jan 2013
From: Seattle, WA
Posts: 89
Private property, they have the right to choose whichever customers they want/don't want.

Unless of course you're a florist that doesn't want to do the arrangements for a same sex wedding. But I digress. :)

We also have the right to let those stores know we'll spend money at their competitors.
 
Old 08-21-2013, 11:43 AM   #5
Gunslinger
 
Joined: Mar 2013
From: Stanwood, WA
Posts: 40
Time will tell. With all the news about their "sitting duck"zone pledge, their financial statements should show whether this was a good idea. For me, I wouldn't feel safe walking through their doors.
 
Old 08-21-2013, 03:33 PM   #6
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Joined: Dec 2012
From: Vancouver, WA
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I've never been asked in my life if I am conceal carrying. I have carried a flashlight and leatherman on my belt under a tee shirt for years that printed more than my iwb does. I say that, to say this, the average store owner or employee has no idea what they are seeing under your clothes. Cell phone? Fannie pack ? Colostomy bag? IDK? Secondly they are going to ask if you are carrying? Doubtful, even if they did, are you under any compulsion to disclose to anyone other than Law enforcement? No.

So the real answer is, they are going to call the cops. If they suspect you are carrying, they are afraid of you already, and don't want to deal with you. So I think it will be unlikely that you will escape the legal ramifications of being in an establishment that posts no guns if you are found to be carrying. If the police are in line with this ordinance, the Sherriff could pull your concealed carry license.

In my neck of the woods. Some law studen embarrasses the PDX police because he is reported by the citizenship. He outmaneuvers the cops, posts it on YouTube and now there is an ordinance against open carry. This guns and coffee shit is going to do much te same. You might be winning some battles, but the War is being lost. John Wayning your way around with an open carry is not win the support of John Q. Public. It's actually moving a lot of folks from ambivalence to supporting stricter gun laws.
 
Old 08-22-2013, 06:38 AM   #7
Marksman
 
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Joined: Jan 2010
From: Sherwood, OR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie View Post
I've never been asked in my life if I am conceal carrying. I have carried a flashlight and leatherman on my belt under a tee shirt for years that printed more than my iwb does. I say that, to say this, the average store owner or employee has no idea what they are seeing under your clothes. Cell phone? Fannie pack ? Colostomy bag? IDK? Secondly they are going to ask if you are carrying? Doubtful, even if they did, are you under any compulsion to disclose to anyone other than Law enforcement? No.

So the real answer is, they are going to call the cops. If they suspect you are carrying, they are afraid of you already, and don't want to deal with you. So I think it will be unlikely that you will escape the legal ramifications of being in an establishment that posts no guns if you are found to be carrying. If the police are in line with this ordinance, the Sherriff could pull your concealed carry license.

In my neck of the woods. Some law studen embarrasses the PDX police because he is reported by the citizenship. He outmaneuvers the cops, posts it on YouTube and now there is an ordinance against open carry. This guns and coffee shit is going to do much te same. You might be winning some battles, but the War is being lost. John Wayning your way around with an open carry is not win the support of John Q. Public. It's actually moving a lot of folks from ambivalence to supporting stricter gun laws.
I can't say I agree with you on the merits of OC and how it affects the public. If you are being an agressive dick about it, yeah, it goes bad, but if you are just doing it and going about your day, that is what people need to see. It is the very fact that noone does it that makes people freak out when they do see it. If it was more common, people would be more used to it, and less afraid.

Can OC be bad for our cause? Yeah, if you do it with the wrong attitude or goals, but it does not have to be. It can be a very good thing.
 
Old 08-22-2013, 09:53 AM   #8
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Joined: Jul 2011
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I had my first encounter with a "no gun zone" a few weeks ago at Poquitos on capitol hill in Seattle. I didn't have a problem with it, and did decide to give them my buisness that evening. It's their right, and I respect that. To me it equates to friends that aren't comfortable around firearms. If I want to enjoy their company/buisness/food, it's the tradeoff I choose to make. That night, I wanted to eat some delichous mexian food more than I wanted to carry.
 
Old 08-22-2013, 11:44 AM   #9
Marksman
 
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Joined: Dec 2012
From: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
I can't say I agree with you on the merits of OC and how it affects the public. If you are being an agressive dick about it, yeah, it goes bad, but if you are just doing it and going about your day, that is what people need to see. It is the very fact that noone does it that makes people freak out when they do see it. If it was more common, people would be more used to it, and less afraid.

Can OC be bad for our cause? Yeah, if you do it with the wrong attitude or goals, but it does not have to be. It can be a very good thing.
I think we agree more than you think we do, I have no problem with OC in and of it's self, I respect a persons right to OC. It's the grandstanding that is causing the backlash, is what I was trying to point out.
 
Old 08-22-2013, 11:53 AM   #10
Marksman
 
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Joined: Jan 2010
From: Sherwood, OR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie View Post
I think we agree more than you think we do, I have no problem with OC in and of it's self, I respect a persons right to OC. It's the grandstanding that is causing the backlash, is what I was trying to point out.
Sounds like we do agree. Too bad all misunderstandings can't be that easy to resolve.
 
Old 08-24-2013, 12:17 AM   #11
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Joined: Jan 2009
From: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 1,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawker View Post
I had my first encounter with a "no gun zone" a few weeks ago at Poquitos on capitol hill in Seattle. I didn't have a problem with it, and did decide to give them my buisness that evening. It's their right, and I respect that. To me it equates to friends that aren't comfortable around firearms. If I want to enjoy their company/buisness/food, it's the tradeoff I choose to make. That night, I wanted to eat some delichous mexian food more than I wanted to carry.
Yeah, I'm not about boycotting any business that doesn't agree with my views. I do however think this cause is based on a manufactured fear -- with a solution that isn't sensible.

I think we already know it, but if you were carrying concealed and simply disregarded their signs, no one would know. So they're relying on an honor-system of compliance, which is workable for people like you. The frustration around any of this is why our elected officials aren't going after the criminals with as much PR verve and vigor as they are the rest of us.

Last edited by richardlpalmer; 08-31-2013 at 11:57 AM.
 
Old 08-31-2013, 10:59 AM   #12
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Joined: Feb 2013
From: tacoma, WA
Posts: 41
This is the latest most idiotic thing I have heard, at least this week.

I'm sure a shooter who has decided to go kill a bunch of people in a store or other public building will see that idiotic sticker and just go home.

And the assumption that it makes that if you carry it's to go commit crimes is equally insane.

Y'all can do what you feel is right, but for me, unless it's a matter of dire circumstances, any business stupid enough and so contrary to our constitutional rights that wants to put up a sticker like that can do without a penny of my money.

Last edited by StoneKnife; 08-31-2013 at 11:00 AM. Reason: por spelin
 
Old 09-17-2013, 09:01 AM   #13
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Joined: Sep 2013
From: Bellingham WA.
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I don't normally agree with the whole boycott scenario. However, I have also found that most of the people with the "No Guns' sign on their doors are the same ones that scream for boycotting a business because of it's political stance. And let's face it the whole gun ban etc. attitude is politically based. Therefore I will not do business with the establishment. I recently came across a site that has business cards you can hand to them. No Gun No Money. Just like it is their right to deny me access and service, it is my right to not do business as well. Just saying.
 
Old 09-18-2013, 07:55 PM   #14
mjn
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Joined: Jan 2009
From: Tri-Cities, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie View Post
I've never been asked in my life if I am conceal carrying. I have carried a flashlight and leatherman on my belt under a tee shirt for years that printed more than my iwb does. I say that, to say this, the average store owner or employee has no idea what they are seeing under your clothes. Cell phone? Fannie pack ? Colostomy bag? IDK? Secondly they are going to ask if you are carrying? Doubtful, even if they did, are you under any compulsion to disclose to anyone other than Law enforcement? No.

So the real answer is, they are going to call the cops. If they suspect you are carrying, they are afraid of you already, and don't want to deal with you. So I think it will be unlikely that you will escape the legal ramifications of being in an establishment that posts no guns if you are found to be carrying. If the police are in line with this ordinance, the Sherriff could pull your concealed carry license.

In my neck of the woods. Some law studen embarrasses the PDX police because he is reported by the citizenship. He outmaneuvers the cops, posts it on YouTube and now there is an ordinance against open carry. This guns and coffee shit is going to do much te same. You might be winning some battles, but the War is being lost. John Wayning your way around with an open carry is not win the support of John Q. Public. It's actually moving a lot of folks from ambivalence to supporting stricter gun laws.
The prophet has spoken... ie; Starbucks. Hit the nail on the head man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Yamamoto View Post
Private property, they have the right to choose whichever customers they want/don't want.

Unless of course you're a florist that doesn't want to do the arrangements for a same sex wedding. But I digress. :)

We also have the right to let those stores know we'll spend money at their competitors.


Damn ..... don't get me started on THAT ball of shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie View Post
I think we agree more than you think we do, I have no problem with OC in and of it's self, I respect a persons right to OC. It's the grandstanding that is causing the backlash, is what I was trying to point out.

Agreed 100%
 
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