Response from senator murray

RCJIM · Jan 22, 2013

First of all I didnt write to her about the tragic shooting at Sandy Hook,

Dear Mr. Myers :

Thank you for writing me regarding the tragic shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. It was good to hear from you.

As a mother, grandmother, and former preschool teacher I was shocked by the tragedy that unfolded in Newtown. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families and loved ones of the victims whose loss is difficult to comprehend.

Unfortunately, this horrific tragedy was another in a long line of gun violence episodes that have ranged from places like Columbine, Virginia Tech, and Aurora to coffee shops in Lakewood to the corner of South Byron Street and McClintock Ave South in Seattle. These episodes have plagued our cities, our schools, and our shared sense of security. This cannot go on. As a society we need to come together to begin a real conversation on all the factors contributing to those horrific instances of gun violence, but we also need to take specific action to bolster our current gun safety laws.

There is no question that we can and should limit access to the assault style weapons of war that are on our streets and that are too often being used to kill innocent people indiscriminately. I have repeatedly voted for an assault weapons ban and will do so again as soon as we can get a bill to the Senate floor.

But preventing tragedies like the one in Newtown will take more than just common-sense gun policies and enforcement. It will also take a renewed commitment to understanding and dealing with the root causes that lead isolated individuals to carry out these atrocities. At this moment, everything needs to be on the table for scrutiny.

Our nation is at a crossroads moment, and we must take the path that protects future generations from re-living these gun violence tragedies over and over again. It will take the courage of people with opposing views but a common purpose sitting down with one another and agreeing that the status quo is unacceptable.

Please be assured I will keep your views in mind as I work with my colleagues and please feel free to share with me your ideas on how to address this crisis. If you would like to know more about my work in the Senate, please feel fr ee to sign up for my updates at http://murrav.senate.gov/updates . Thank you for contacting me, and please do not hesitate to contact me again.

thejrod · Jan 22, 2013

"There is no question that we can and should limit access to the assault style weapons of war that are on our streets and that are too often being used to kill innocent people indiscriminately. I have repeatedly voted for an assault weapons ban and will do so again as soon as we can get a bill to the Senate floor. "

This just pissed me off. No question? Of course there's a question. The question of FACTS. The latest articles said the CT shooter didn't even bring the "AR" into the school - he used 4 handguns.

Or the FACT that rifles of ANY kind (including so-called assault weapons) are used in (don't recall the exact number) something like 0.2% of all homicides. Ask her why she is focused on them, and not something that would be statistically meaningful?

MURDER is already the most heinous of crimes and the most highly illegal carrying the highest (and supreme) punishment in many states. Yet it still happens. People that are pre-committed to carrying out murder are clearly not going to worry about the legal status of the tools they plan to use to commit the crime.

Probably won't make a difference... these people have their minds made up already. It's scary!!!! We NEED to do something about it!!!

Preachin to the choir... I should save my keystrokes.

John MF Rambo · Jan 22, 2013

And weren't there only like a few homicides that involved actual assault rifles in the history of the United States?

pnwvolks · Jan 22, 2013

There are only around 38-43 murders a year with rifles.... Even less then that when it comes to "assault" rifles!

MadManx · Jan 22, 2013

FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 11

RCJIM · Jan 22, 2013

Thanks for the link, I was looking for something like this,, interesting that a knife killed more people than rifles, shotguns. I am going to send this data and she what I get back

RCJIM · Jan 22, 2013

Show Details FromRepresentative Dave Reichert
Dear Mr. Myers,

Thank you for contacting me to share your views regarding Second Amendment rights and related legislation. I appreciate hearing your thoughts on this matter and welcome the opportunity to respond.

Over the course of the last year, the United States has witnessed tragic shooting events in several parts of the country , including the most recent tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut . In response, some have called for legislation to address the online sale of ammunition as well as the possession of ammunition feeding devices. As you may know, several related measures were introduced in the 112th Congress. Rest assured, should these measures come before the House of Representatives for a vote, I will be sure to keep your thoughts in mind and give them thorough consideration.

I share your concern about gun violence in America. This difficult issue requires a thoughtful approach and consideration of many related issues, including the services available to those suffering from mental illness. Please know that I am already working with my colleagues on how we can address these issues, including increasing school safety. In a previous Congress, I offered an amendment that would have authorized resources to enhance and improve school safety by modernizing and upgrading school technology and infrastructure to ensure schools are properly prepared for the unthinkable (H.R. 2187). We have an obligation as Americans to make sure that our nation's youth are protected from harm's way - these heart-breaking tragedies must be stopped.

As a law enforcement officer for 33 years, I realize in a very personal sense just how dangerous weapons are in the wrong hands. I am concerned about the violence that results from criminal use of firearms and the incidence of criminal possession of firearms. However, I believe the best way to deal with crime is not to limit the availability of firearms to law-abiding citizens, but to enforce our laws to ensure that criminals do not obtain weapons in the first place and are penalized for their misuse. These criminals must be held accountable to our laws.

I believe Congress has a responsibility to ensure that legislation holds up to constitutional scrutiny, and I am a strong defender of the Second Amendment, which permits citizens to keep and bear arms. As we move forward into the 113th Congress, my colleagues in Congress and I must come together in a bipartisan manner to help find effective solutions to prevent these horrible tragedies from ever occurring without violating the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to get in touch with me. Your interest and input are valued , and I hope to hear from you in the future regarding other matters of importance. I encourage you to visit my website and sign-up for my monthly e-newsletter at Welcome to Congressman Dave Reichert | Congressman Dave Reichert to learn more about other issues impacting the 8 th Congressional District and our nation. You can also follow my work online and receive frequent updates on legislation being considered in Congress by visiting me on Twitter ( www.twitter.com/davereichert ) and Facebook ( www.facebook.com/repdavereichert ).

Sincerely,

David G. Reichert
Member of Congress

Please DO NOT REPLY to this e-mail because it was sent from an unattended mailbox. If you'd like to reply, please send a response via my website, Welcome to Congressman Dave Reichert | Congressman Dave Reichert. Thank you for your help in making sure I receive your important communications

richardlpalmer · Jan 22, 2013

I received this from Senator Murray as well. I'm pretty sure it was due to one of the online protest things we've all signed -- they were sent to our Senator, Representatives, Governor, etc.

Here's what I sent in reply:

Thank you very much for your reply! I also feel we need to do something about these types of tragic events. I know they’re not common – and no two seem to be the same – but they are horrible.

I am concerned about the direction you’re looking at taking though. You’re targeting “assault rifles” but they are already illegal (banned). No assault rifle has been legally accessible to the American public since 1934. Maybe you mean “painted black rifle” or “defensive rifle”, I’m not 100% sure.

Regardless, the reason I’m curious about this line of reasoning is a rifle wasn’t even used in the Sandy Hook shooting. And rifles in general are only used in 1/5 of 1% of all gun related crime. It just seems odd that we’d spend this much effort to ban the weapons Americans use every day to protect themselves – the very weapons criminals DON’T use according to the FBI crime statistics.

I would be happy to support more security for schools, better gun & safety education (even in schools), defensive/disaster training for school staff, etc. And it might be wise to look at community deputation for people that can qualify as protectors/shooters. I know plenty of military and ex-military would be up for the task.

But going after the defensive weapons Americans use to defend themselves, which criminals by and large do not use, seems counter-intuitive. I know they look scary to some people – I mean, they are black and have pointed edges, etc. – but they are defensive weapons and should be considered as such.

Sincerely,
Richard L. Palmer

I was pretty sure I'd never get a reply anyway, but figured what the heck. And of course, I just received a reply -- automated from an unmonitored inbox...

mjn · Jan 22, 2013

^^As always brother... very well written.

richardlpalmer · Jan 22, 2013

mjn said:
^^As always brother... very well written.

And as usual more often than not, falling on deaf ears.

KevinKris · Jan 23, 2013

FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

if you will take a look here you can see gun violence has already been reducing on its own without higher control, also murder itself has been on the decline. now why would we fix something that seems to already be headed in the direction of something better?

oh and this table that shows the number of justified killing. cant seem to find anything indicating whether or not its a number that can be subtracted from table 8. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-15

not to mention this table that shows states with the most strict gun control has generally the highest percentage of firearm murders, Illinois is pretty bad with 452 murders total and 377 of those by firearms. these guys dont even have the option to defend themselves against such attacks.http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-20

this one is my favorite so far showing that when the assault weapon ban expiration had no effect on the number of murders based on the last 20 years. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-1

i couldnt find anything earleir than 1992 and i find that information very interesting so i sent and email asking for earlier data. will post the reply if i get one.

James · Jan 23, 2013

Send Sen.Murray a positive message

Send Sen.Murray a positive message!
Keep the positive pressure on the law makers! LINK>>http://pnwguns.com/gun-rights/6991-gun-owner-call-action.html

RK600 · Jan 23, 2013

KevinKris said:
FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

if you will take a look here you can see gun violence has already been reducing on its own without higher control, also murder itself has been on the decline. now why would we fix something that seems to already be headed in the direction of something better?

oh and this table that shows the number of justified killing. cant seem to find anything indicating whether or not its a number that can be subtracted from table 8. FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 15

not to mention this table that shows states with the most strict gun control has generally the highest percentage of firearm murders, Illinois is pretty bad with 452 murders total and 377 of those by firearms. these guys dont even have the option to defend themselves against such attacks.FBI — Table 20

this one is my favorite so far showing that when the assault weapon ban expiration had no effect on the number of murders based on the last 20 years. FBI — Table 1

i couldnt find anything earleir than 1992 and i find that information very interesting so i sent and email asking for earlier data. will post the reply if i get one.

You may want to review some other information. Firearm deaths have actually been going up. While the violence has been going down, opposition is using these numbers. Click the Total Number of Gun deaths section.

Guns in the United States: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

KevinKris · Jan 23, 2013

RK600 said:
You may want to review some other information. Firearm deaths have actually been going up. While the violence has been going down, opposition is using these numbers. Click the Total Number of Gun deaths section.

Guns in the United States: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

well not to crap on your response the numbers dont match the FBI information as far as homicides go. also your source is not an official source of knowledge and likely inaccurate, due to the fact that it does not have direct communication with state departments. it is also a website built to advocate for tighter gun laws. i would be interested in knowing those numbers if anyone knows where i could find a reliable source.

also the big argument for gun control is to reduce if not eliminate gun violence and not just any death even though they use those numbers as part of their argument.

::edited in after my initial post::

found a CDC source with a somewhat limited amount of numbers but gets a bit closer to the numbers we are looking for. still doesnt have exact numbers but has a list from most common to least common. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_07.pdf

the top 95 causes of death are all medical, 96-98 are transportation related, 99 falls, 100 is the first mention of firearms being accidental, 105 is suicide by firearms, 106 suicide by other means, 107 homicide by firearms, 108 homicide by other means. on page 17 of the report they lump a bunch of things together to be less specific, which probably is where people come up with the top 10 causes of death and throw firearms in there to scare people.

gun control arguments are really based on a lot of fear mongering and selecting information only from parts of reports to improve their argument instead of the whole truth. its a lot like having Michael Moore come up with the facts about gun control.

if there is a problem we need to fix, its how do we move the flu from number 46 on that below firearms deaths. why dont people storming the white house demanding we improve quality of medical care rather than forcing the cost down?

RK600 · Jan 23, 2013

KevinKris said:
well not to crap on your response the numbers dont match the FBI information as far as homicides go. also your source is not an official source of knowledge and likely inaccurate, due to the fact that it does not have direct communication with state departments. it is also a website built to advocate for tighter gun laws. i would be interested in knowing those numbers if anyone knows where i could find a reliable source.

also the big argument for gun control is to reduce if not eliminate gun violence and not just any death even though they use those numbers as part of their argument.

Actually, if you review, it's gun deaths, not just homicides. This includes suicides etc and other factors that the FBI website you linked to doesn't include, since the numbers there only reflected violent crimes.

Also considering the fact the website I linked to is for Worldwide gun laws, I doubt it's pro-gun control. You should read the home page before assuming it's a gun control website. It's actually put on by the University of Syndey, Australia. They have no interest in dictating Gun Policy in the US. However, they do advocate reducing gun violence, as we all should.

If you would have read further on that website and clicked on the Gun Homicides section, you would find that the numbers do, in fact, agree with the FBI numbers. There is a vast, VAST amount of information on that website. They break it down by long guns, hand guns, suicides, Unintentional gun deaths, etc. Read through it a bit more!!

Gun Policy Facts and News
About

KevinKris · Jan 23, 2013

actually the homicide numbers dont match if you compare the numbers of firearm homicides from the FBI link which is 8,583 as apposed to gunpolicy.org which says 11,101 firearm homicides (both numbers are for 2011). i posted both the links below to save the effort of scrolling up to the other post. im sorry but one of them has to be right and i cant help but trust our own state department over a group of lobbyists in Australia.

FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Guns in the United States: Facts, Figures and Firearm Law

again, im still trying to find where i can see the actual numbers for the other types of deaths rather than where they rank on a list of all deaths reported.

richardlpalmer · Jan 23, 2013

Gunpolicy.org doesn't give me the feeling of an objective, non-policy making, source. The numbers don't completely add up. Not to mention things like "Deaths" doesn't express what everyone is talking about. Were these deaths by police activity? Were they in self-defense (justified)? Big differences.

I prefer the FBI's information for a couple of reasons. 1) They don't have a bias one way or the other on the numbers. 2) They don't create policy. A third reason is because the numbers tend to validate my stance...

I do think the type of death is relevant. I've been looking at the FBI's numbers for a few weeks on and off. I don't quite get why no one has taken ownership for the decline in murders over the last couple decades. Is it because the Clinton ban showed no change during or after it expired? Seems like someone would want to claim the many year decline...

RK600 · Jan 23, 2013

richardlpalmer said:
Gunpolicy.org doesn't give me the feeling of an objective, non-policy making, source. The numbers don't completely add up. Not to mention things like "Deaths" doesn't express what everyone is talking about. Were these deaths by police activity? Were they in self-defense (justified)? Big differences.

I prefer the FBI's information for a couple of reasons. 1) They don't have a bias one way or the other on the numbers. 2) They don't create policy. A third reason is because the numbers tend to validate my stance...

I do think the type of death is relevant. I've been looking at the FBI's numbers for a few weeks on and off. I don't quite get why no one has taken ownership for the decline in murders over the last couple decades. Is it because the Clinton ban showed no change during or after it expired? Seems like someone would want to claim the many year decline...

That's the thing though....the numbers do correlate. They are just broken down even further than the FBI's. GunPolicy.org doesn't create policy either, although they do LIST the policies for countries across the world, hence the name. I dunno, just seemed like a website that would come in handy for comparing many countries to ourselves and arming ourselves with more knowledge. Would be interesting to fact check it, for sure.

Yeah, I don't get why no one has claimed it either. However, it does go against the current agenda of further gun control so maybe that's why it has not been brought up. Especially since it has gone down since the AWB....that wouldn't validate the current push at all.

richardlpalmer · Jan 23, 2013

I saw the other numbers shortly after I posted what I said.

I think the main reason I resist that site is it's THE primary tool for the anti-gunners. It'd be like sending a mega-bleeding-heart-liberal to FOX News for "fair and unbiased" information. Even if the data was good, they'd be adverse to going there.

RK600 · Jan 23, 2013

richardlpalmer said:
I saw the other numbers shortly after I posted what I said.

I think the main reason I resist that site is it's THE primary tool for the anti-gunners. It'd be like sending a mega-bleeding-heart-liberal to FOX News for "fair and unbiased" information. Even if the data was good, they'd be adverse to going there.

If the opposition is using those numbers.....don't you think we should educate ourselves as to the numbers they are using?? One should always view both sides of the coin.......I read news from multiple sources for this very reason. If even you don't agree with what they say, it's always good to read it and think about it. Denying it or disagreeing with it won't make it go away.

Response from senator murray

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